Monday, June 15, 2009 - 10:46 PM

The contrast between Barack Obama's Cairo speech and Benjamin Netanyahu's speech last night at Bar Ilan University could hardly have been greater. Obama was eloquent, sophisticated, and obviously looking to find areas of agreement and to reach across chasms of suspicion and misunderstanding. Even if one might quibble with a few particulars, the sincerity of his effort at outreach was palpable even to some listeners who would have liked him to go farther.
By contrast, Netanyahu's offering last night was self-righteous, defensive, and generally lacking in nuance or empathy. In his portrayal of Middle East history, Israelis are blameless victims and Arabs are nothing but untrustworthy and vengeful adversaries. There was no mention of the Arab League peace initiative and no hint that maybe, just maybe, Israel’s policies of reprisal, targeted assassinations, and territorial expansion after 1967 had also contributed to this tragic conflict. Apart from some boilerplate language about peace and economic development, it was a speech that demanded further concessions from the Palestinians and offered -- begrudgingly -- only a heavily qualified vision of a "two state" solution.
According to the transcript provided in Ha’aretz, Netanyahu uttered the phrase "Palestinian state" exactly once in his remarks, preceded by the modifier "demilitarized." He gave no indication what borders he imagines for this state and did not even say that the West Bank portion should be contiguous, although he made it clear that Jerusalem would "remain the united capital of Israel"). Moreover, his vision of a two-state solution -- "each with its flag, anthem and government" -- suggests that he thinks the Palestinians will accept some sort of limited self-government arrangement so long as they get to fly their own flag and sing a national song.
Furthermore, after appealing to the Palestinians to "begin peace negotiations immediately without preconditions," he proceeded to lay out a set of preconditions that he knew would be unacceptable if not insulting. In addition to the relatively new condition (i.e., something Ben Gurion or Rabin never demanded) that the Palestnians accept not only recognize Israel’s existence (something the PLO already did back in 1988), but also recognize it as "the state of the Jewish people." Moreover, after saying that neither side should "threaten its neighbor’s security and existence," he insisted that the Palestinians agree to permanent state of abject vulnerability. Specifically, once the Palestinians agree to have no army, no control of their air space, and to forever forswear military treaties -- then Israel "will agree to a real peace agreement."
Netanyahu clearly felt he had to make some concession to Obama’s dramatic new initiative, but the response he offered was the barest minimum. That was to be expected, and may not even tell us very much about Bibi's own beliefs. After all, he is leading a heavily right-wing ruling coalition, most of whose members are even more hardline than he is. Had he gone any further -- or expressed the slightest remorse or regret about some of Israel's own actions -- his own political position would have been jeopardized.
I draw three lessons from the two speeches. First, the episode shows that U.S. pressure can work. Obama hasn't done anything more than describe the differences between his vision and Netanyahu's in clear language, and to stick to his position in the face of Israeli objections. Yet even this relatively brief period has forced Netanyahu to take a least one step in the right direction, because he knows that he cannot afford to jeopardize U.S.-Israeli ties and he knows that the Israeli electorate knows that too. According to a recent survey by Israel's Institute for National Security Studies, 42 percent of Israelis oppose settlement expansion, 41 percent support it "but not if it will result in a confrontation with the United States," and only 17 percent back expansion "irrespective of the American position."
Second, this incident also shows how far we still have to go, and that Israel will doubtless try to drag things out as long as possible and make Obama pay a political price for every concession. After all, they know he's facing lots of other problems, and they are probably hoping that he’ll eventually have to turn to other matters. As one unnamed Israeli official said last week, "We are not sure how much staying power they [the US administration] have. Washington is a one-crisis town." This approach is smart tactics but a foolish strategy, because failure to get a two-state solution is the real threat to Israel and the longer they delay the harder it is going to be.
Third, let's not forget that as things stand now, the United States is still far from even-handed. We are subsidizing Israel to the tune of $3 billion-plus per year and Obama made it clear in Cairo that the United States is still "unshakeably" committed to its security. And that means the United States is still indirectly supporting the occupation, even if the President and his aides say that they oppose it. If Netanyahu and company remain intransigent, Obama will face the choice I wrote about in Taming American Power:
If Israel remains unwilling to grant the Palestinians a viable state. . .then the United States should end its economic and military support. . . We can hope that it does not come to this, but U.S. leaders should be prepared to pursue the American national interest if it does. In effect, the United States would be giving Israel a choice: it can end its self-defeating occupation of the West Bank and Gaza and remain a cherished U.S. partner, or it can remain an occupying power on its own. In other words, the United States would be treating Israel the same way that it treats any other country. The United States would still support the continued existence of a Jewish state (the same way that we support a Norwegian state, a Thai state, a Polish state, etc.), and it would be prepared to help if Israel’s survival were in jeopardy. But it would no longer treat Israel as though its interests and U.S. interests were identical, or behave as if Israel deserved generous U.S. support no matter what it did."
And yes, I know that matters are far from ideal on the Palestinian side of the equation, and that a lot of work needs to be done on that front too. But Netanyahu's speech did nothing to convince Palestinians that Hamas was the real obstacle to peace and statehood, which would be the best -- and maybe the only -- way to undermine its standing amongst Palestinians. Either Bibi doesn't get it, or he doesn't care, or he’s a hostage to his own coalition. Whatever it is, expect more fireworks between Washington and Jerusalem.
Lawrence Jackson/The White House via Getty Images
The contrast between Barack Obama's Cairo speech and Benjamin Netanyahu's speech last night at Bar Ilan University could hardly have been greater. Obama was eloquent, sophisticated, and obviously looking to find areas of agreement and to reach across chasms of suspicion and misunderstanding....By contrast, Netanyahu's offering last night was self-righteous, defensive, and generally lacking in nuance or empathy.
If I didn't know better, I would say this is someone caricaturing Walt. So banal and predictable.
Netanyahu's speech was great. He laid out his case simply, clearly and logically. The immediate Palestinian reaction was telling. The idea of a Jewish state as a neighbor is a red line for them, despite the fact that this is what UN resolutions call for.
It may be time for Obama to start negotiating with our allies as well as our enemies, rather than dictating terms to them.
You've got to be kidding. Israel does not want a Palestinains state. The idea of a Palestinain state as a neighbor is a red line for the, despite the fact that this is what UN resolutions call for.
Israel is on the run from the truth. The Palestinains have repeatedly said they would accept peace when Israel goes back to the '67 borders. What has Israel done? Slowly and systematically driving the Palestinians out of the West Bank and East Jeruselem.
The truth and time are not on your side and the long term intentions of the Israels, so carefully hidden all these decades by pointing the finger and whining their victim rhetoric at the Palestinains is over. The biggest rejectionist and obstructionist to peace has been Israel.
No speech that Bibi delivers can provide the boost he’s looking for because he doesn’t have a viable vision of how to make peace with the Palestinians. We’re in a new day and a new century.
Bibi keeps digging that hole, with all those non viable conditions and eventually he’s going to fall in. And then maybe we can make some real progress if Israel can formulate a more pragmatic government.
In sum\n contradictions and double standards at every turn.
Bibi does have a vision though- it’s totally unacceptable, a fantasy, and and insult to believe it would be acceptable to anyone in the ME outside of Israel.
Rather than joining the international consensus and leading Israel to peace, the Israeli PM chose to stay trapped in his old ideology, treading water. The timid acknowledgement that he gave to a two-state solution is useless. It is a non-starter and he knows it.
Well, the jury is still out on whether American pressure can work. Netanyahu responded exactly as one might have expected an Israeli prime minister with a narrow majority composed of fractious, mostly right-wing Knesset members to respond. He spoke to his domestic political position, with which he will take no risks unless forced.
Will the Obama administration force him? That's the question. President Obama laid down a market in his Cairo speech that would be difficult for him to pick up without looking impotent, but speaking out against West Bank settlements is one thing and taking substantive steps (placing conditions on aid to Israel, for example) to pressure Israel to suspend construction is another. Israel's supporters in the United States might not be so understanding if Obama went beyond words -- at least such must be the hope of Netanyahu, who dreads the rupturing of his young government even more than he dreads discord with Washington.
There is also, of course, the question of what happens if Obama does step up the pressure on Israel, gets what he is asking for on settlements, and then turns to the Palestinians. If all he gets is the same pointless feuding between Fatah and Hamas, he's risked antagonizing an important domestic constituency for nothing. That is, at least, the way his administration has to portray his position to the Palestinians. In reality, an American administration able to force an important concession from the Israelis and then have the Palestinian side hold up the show would have gained some ground with the audience in Arab and other Muslim countries. From our point of view this is the point of the whole exercise.
It would be great to arrive at an Israeli-Palestinian accord, but at the end of the day what matters for the United States is that it not be seen as preventing one through uncritical support of every Israeli policy. Fundamentally, it makes no difference to the United States who governs what parts of the West Bank of the Jordan River. Had the Israelis driven out the entire Arab population in 1948, so that only Jews lived on the West Bank, we could have lived with that. Had the Arab states made peace with Israel before 1967, so that no Jews lived on the West Bank, we could have lived with that, too. Of course, we could have lived with the Clinton position taken during the 2000 negotiations as well. We all understand that the parties to the dispute see the issues involved as involving high religious calling and/or issues of fundamental justice. Their calling, their justice -- not ours.
We'll see if the Obama administration has a post-Cairo plan. Obama made his position about West Bank settlements public, and Netanyahu gave the predictable Likud response. Now what?
Clearly, Netanyahu's response falls way short of Obama expectations. Actually, de facto, Netanyahu's speech and actions are a clear rebuttal of Obama's expectations in terms of settlements and 2 state solution. Israel is now offering much less than it had already agreed in Oslo while asking much more of the Palestinians. It is an insult to the US people and the response should be in kind starting by witholding loan guarantees to get Israel's attention and show that this is serious.
If Israel doesn't want US intrusion, they can leave $3B+ on the table and walk away. The more the US allow Israel's qualified acceptance and "observations" and agree to enter into detailed negotiations with bizantine arguments presented by Israel and occasionally by the Palestinians, the more the US play Israel's game of delaying forever (or at least until the next administration) or until the Palestinian state and people fall into oblivion and irrelevance .... you know, just like the Indian nation.
And thank you to prof. Walt and Mearsheimer for having provided the arguments and tools to have a fair and balanced discussion with the people who support Israel unquestionably.
looks like more and more people are realizing what a bad idea israel was in the first place...
what it boils down to, is: you cant exploit your victimhood in order to victimize others and still claim the moral high ground.
morals are not abstract ideas handed down by a god: morals developed over millions of years by trial and error... they are a survival mechanism... and when prominent israelis have to publically state that it's necessary for all jews to abandon their morals in defense of israel, you know it's all over but the shouting.
there's no small irony involved when you realize that many of the predators who are going to throw israel off the sled are jews themselves, who've benefited from decades of exemption from criticism because they occupied the supposed moral high ground, and that "high ground" was a result of deliberate exploitation of the holocaust.
with a little forethought, the death of israel can probably be exploited to become a new persecution myth that serves as the basis for the next cycle of jewish ascendancy... provided there's enough oil left for another cycle.
once again, i have to say that none of this is my fault.
I read the Haaretz transcript, and I must say that Netanyahu's language has come a long way since his campaign.
And of course he doesn't get it, come on!
But he made a move, and however small, he did take a baby step in my view. The U.S. could respond with more pressure and a withdrawal of support for the occupation, but I would much rather see a Unified Palestinian Government come together and respond with a counter qualification to the Palestinian State...at least they would all be talking about the same thing.
Apart from some boilerplate language about peace and economic development, it was a speech that demanded further concessions from the Palestinians and offered -- begrudgingly -- only a heavily qualified vision of a "two state" solution.
I suspect he's trying to balance on a beam, by reassuring his right-wing coalition partners that any Palestinian state will be a sham, while reassuring the Israeli populace that he's at least going to give it a shot.
Specifically, once the Palestinians agree to have no army, no control of their air space, and to forever forswear military treaties -- then Israel "will agree to a real peace agreement."
This was the real joke of Netanyahu's speech. Under what conditions does he think a disarmed Palestinian state would be stable? This is a region where the local states like to finance armed militias as a prominent tool of statecraft, and since the Palestinians don't trust the Israelis, they would probably be inclined to seek what protection they can get.
At best, you'd probably end up with a situation like Lebanon, where you have a large militia that can't be restrained by the government due to army weakness (Hezbollah, basically). At worse, one of these groups would simply topple the government of said "state", and then Israel would be put into a position of having to overthrow the government, getting back to Square One.
To put it bluntly, would the Israelis rather have an official Palestinian Army pointing guns and rockets at them from the West Bank, under the control of the Palestinian government - or would they rather have militias under no accountability to anyone doing so?
Netanyahu uttered the phrase "Palestinian state" exactly once in his remarks, preceded by the modifier "demilitarized."
He also used the qualifiers of "Judea and Samaria" for the territory in question in the West Bank, which automatically makes me suspicious of his intentions - it's like a dog-whistle to the conservatives.
As one unnamed Israeli official said last week, "We are not sure how much staying power they [the US administration] have. Washington is a one-crisis town."
Martin Indyk put it another way - he said that the Israelis often got their way because, as a local state in the region, they were far more interested in a specific set of policies and outcomes than the US, which is a distant global power with many problems.
Either Bibi doesn't get it, or he doesn't care, or he’s a hostage to his own coalition. Whatever it is, expect more fireworks between Washington and Jerusalem.
Keep up the pressure. If it brings his government down, then we've lost nothing - I doubt a coalition could get any more conservative than the one right now.
At best, you'd probably end up with a situation like Lebanon, where you have a large militia that can't be restrained by the government due to army weakness (Hezbollah, basically). At worse, one of these groups would simply topple the government of said "state", and then Israel would be put into a position of having to overthrow the government, getting back to Square One.
To put it bluntly, would the Israelis rather have an official Palestinian Army pointing guns and rockets at them from the West Bank, under the control of the Palestinian government - or would they rather have militias under no accountability to anyone doing so?
This is a good observation. Regarding demilitarization, I also believe it isn't a reasonable demand and, even if accepted, couldn't be enforced (I think Netanyahu is realistic enough to realize this last). And by that I mean that the Palestinians would win the right to arm through international mechanisms, ie, the "international community" walking back the agreement, rather than sneaking in weapons.
Regarding the militias, you paint a probable scenario. After reading your ideas, it makes me realize we would probably get both - a military and a quasi-official/deniable militia a la Hezbollah. I think it is also arguable that from Israel's perspective the present situation, as bad as it is, is better than having another Hezbollah as an unofficial arm of the government in control of the West Bank.
(I think Netanyahu is realistic enough to realize this last)
I think so too, but I think it's part of the reason why he's not entirely dead-set on the peace process.
And by that I mean that the Palestinians would win the right to arm through international mechanisms, ie, the "international community" walking back the agreement, rather than sneaking in weapons.
Good point. There are certainly countries that would be willing to sell them weapons and military training, and if they become an independent state, then they'll probably have borders with Arab states that they control.
Short of Israel controlling Palestine's borders, what could they really do about it, too? Let's say Israel gets intelligence that the Palestinians are receiving a shipment of munitions for long-range artillery. Are they just going to bomb the shipment, risking a cry from the Arab World and International Community of "Aha! We knew it!" plus a war with a Palestinian state next door, or would they protest, which would just be ignored?
a military and a quasi-official/deniable militia a la Hezbollah.
That's possible, although I think the prospects for a legitimate Palestinian military displacing militias are stronger than those in Lebanon - Lebanon has been suffering from major divisions that weakened its government for decades. The Palestinians aren't quite that bad off - if they could get a state with boundaries, there's a lot of potential growth for a stable state apparatus.
Of course, I could be wrong. Pakistan has sponsored militia groups and insurgency movements as a means of undermining India and their military strength.
I think it is also arguable that from Israel's perspective the present situation, as bad as it is, is better than having another Hezbollah as an unofficial arm of the government in control of the West Bank.
The problem I have with it is that I don't think it's a stable situation. Hamas is trying (with great difficulty) to leak back into the West Bank, and Israel has all but ceded Gaza to them. At the same time, you've basically got an arms race going on between Hezbollah and Hamas, and Israel - the former are trying to move towards longer-range rockets, the kind that could hit anywhere in Israel proper and shut down the Israeli economy every time they go to war, and the latter are rushing towards missile defense technology.
The announcements from Israel at the weekend will probably be described by the Secretary of State, (you know, the one with a lot of Jewish baggage), as ‘unhelpful’ once again. Spare us please; no more of this kind of one-sided, subservient Foreign Policy.
How obliging of the Israelis to allow a Palestinian state.
No Army though, no ownership of the airspace, no military material at all. But the Israelis can have what they like because they need armaments to maintain the power to continue 50 years of murders, assassinations and the creation of an apartheid.state. That’s OK though. We all know they will make reparations for their ethnic cleansing and that they will demolish all illegal settlements.
There is little point in trying to reason with the rightwing Netanyahu government, a captive to all the settler groups and extremists who are proudly displaying signs such as ‘Obama is a Jew-hater‘. At the rate they are going, most of the world will soon be viewed in the same way. It is almost impossible to have any respect for those extreme attitudes.
On the youtube site http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBqnw6UPkTw we have arrogant Israelis viciously displaying their dislike of the US, after all these years of mollycoddling them, allowing them to blatantly ignore resolutions from the UN and giving them preferential treatment over the Arab nations plus billions in aid …..and this is what they think of the US? And we haven’t even mentioned the murder of 34 US military and the wounding of 170 others in the USS Liberty attack.
In case it is not obvious, Israel is giving the US the finger in no uncertain terms. Such is their arrogance and extreme level of comfort based on the fact that they consider they can control US public opinion. They have spent billions in building up the infrastructure to manipulate the weak-knee’ed US politicians, the root cause of all this arrogance.
The US seems very happy to live with 50 years of embargos against Cuba, the installation of a dictator in Chile, military excursions in practically all South American countries over time, embargos against Iran and an unwarranted war in Iraq, none of which have achieved anything worthwhile.
But now, let’s see what is done with Israel. Stop all the aid and the supply of military spare parts. Place an embargo on Israel and push through the outstanding resolutions in the UN, all ignored by Israel to date. It is time to show Israel that they are just another country. They have used the good but weak offices of the US for long enough and right now, US opinion counts for nothing in Tel Aviv.
Israel is now a rebel and will never be prepared to face reality by handing back the lands stolen from Palestine or to accept the fact that they are the interlopers, the intruders, the murderers, the assassins, not the Palestinians.
But, let us give credit where it is due. The US has created this absolute monster. We had best find some way to removed its teeth and control it, NOW!
Time to stop playing word games
Paths and pressures.
If American, European, civil-minded Arab diplomats can construct a viable path, that results in a rational person deriving that there is CONFIDENCE that the Arab League proposal is sincere and can stand, the pressure on Israel will be effective.
Its posture during negotiation will be to elaborate the proposal, define the features, the roll-out of its implementation, to ensure the features that are designed in the proposal (from the perspective of Israel's needs - security for Israel and also security and civil rights for minorities within new Palestine).
But rather than stonewalling on the proposal itself, the only questions will be implementation, likely irritating, opportunistic (on both sides), delaying.
It may take three years to get there, to get the likud government to shift to the left of Kadima, but with a PEACE AGREEMENT consented by all parties as its medal.
Let's say there are new elections for Israeli Prime minister and in the Palestine Authority and both Hamas and Netanyahu are replaced by moderates who make a final peace deal. Hamas still controls all of gaza and continues to fire rockets into Israel. What should Israel do then?
When did accepting Israel as a Jewish state become a deal-killer
Professor Walt writes:
Furthermore, after appealing to the Palestinians to "begin peace negotiations immediately without preconditions," he proceeded to lay out a set of preconditions that he knew would be unacceptable if not insulting. In addition to the relatively new condition (i.e., something Ben Gurion or Rabin never demanded) that the Palestnians accept not only recognize Israel’s existence (something the PLO already did back in 1988), but also recognize it as "the state of the Jewish people."
Professor Rashid Khalidi wrote in (at page 195) that the PLO's 1988 declaration of independence "was the first official Palestinian recognition of the legitimacy of the existence of a Jewish state[.]"
The Geneva Accord includes "recognition of the right of the Jewish people to statehood and the recognition of the right of the Palestinian people to statehood, without prejudice to the equal rights of the Parties' respective citizens." Plainly, Israel (basically within its pre-June 4, 1967, boundaries) embodies that "right of the Jewish people to statehood." Put otherwise, Israel is "the state of the Jewish people," on the necessary understanding that all citizens of Israel, as all citizens of the State of Palestine, enjoy equal rights.
One need not support Netanyahu -- I surely do not and never have -- to wonder how something that, according to Prof. Khalidi, the PLO under Arafat accepted in 1988 and leading Palestinians again agreed to just a few years ago, has now become a poison pill. Indeed, if, as President Clinton maintained in his famous peace parameters, reaching an agreement should "clearly mark the end of the conflict and its implementation put an end to all claims," then the idea that the Palestinian people and their state might withhold recognition of the legitimacy of the state of the Jewish people is quite troubling.
"When did accepting Israel as a Jewish state become a deal-killer"
It has always been a deal-killer.
What you are highlighting is the difference between what the Palestinians actually believe vs. what other people say the Palestinians believe. There are a lot of apologists for the Palestinians, the blog author here included, who will whitewash their positions to make them more palatable to people in the US and EU.
"...then the idea that the Palestinian people and their state might withhold recognition of the legitimacy of the state of the Jewish people is quite troubling."
I couldn't agree more. The Palestinians' immediate and vehement response to this part of Nethanyahu's speech put an exclamation mark on what he was saying:
...Friends, with the advantages of peace so clear, so obvious, we must ask ourselves why is peace still so far from us, even though our hands are extended for peace? Why has the conflict going on for over 60 years? To bring an end to it, there must be a sincere, genuine answer to the question: what is the root of the conflict? In his speech at the Zionist Congress in Basel, in speaking of his grand vision of a Jewish homeland for the Jewish People, Theodor Herzl, the visionary of the State of Israel, said: This is so big, we must talk about it only in the simplest words possible.
I now am asking that when we speak of the huge challenge of peace, we must use the simplest words possible, using person to person terms. Even with our eyes on the horizon, we must have our feet on the ground, firmly rooted in truth. The simple truth is that the root of the conflict has been and remains - the refusal to recognize the right of the Jewish People to its own state in its historical homeland.
I found some great information on The Israel Project's website. Take a look!
Timeline of Israeli-Arab Peace Initiatives Since 1977
http://www.theisraelproject.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=hsJPK0PI
JpH&b=689705&ct=6698701
Timeline Without Racist Jewish Zionist Hasbarah
The Israel Project is a racist Jewish Zionist organization that fraudulently holds tax deductible 501(c)(3) status because of corrupt Jewish social networking inside and outside of the US government to manipulate the tax code. Note that Canada, which as of yet is not quite as penetrated by Zionist subversion, did not grant the Israel Project the equivalent Canadian status.
Here is a time that I put together a few years ago: Zionist Criminality.
Professor Walt describes current US foreign aid to Israel as a subsidy, but in reality it is only a small piece of the total US subsidy to Israel.
Another example of US subsidy to Israel is the USIFTA.
Overall I have found about $60 billion/year of subsidies to the State of Israel from the USA, but the total subsidy may actually be as high as $100 billion/year -- in other words between 1/3 and 1/2 of Israel's total GDP.
To put it bluntly, the Israel Lobby and the State of Israel (or -- to describe the situation more accurately -- the Zionist Imperial System) are robbing Americans blind, and I have not even address the cost of the Israel to the USA, which currently is at least $5-6 trillion.
But Netanyahu's speech did nothing to convince Palestinians that Hamas was the real obstacle to peace and statehood, which would be the best -- and maybe the only -- way to undermine its standing amongst Palestinians.
I do think that you are right in this quote. I often think that the biggest issue is the formulation, by both parties, of strategy based on their own propaganda about their enemy. Both seem to lack true understanding of the others' history and current situation.
I could almost hear a Palestinian thinking as I read the speech that the OCT was originally won from Arab armies of Jordan and Egypt. That no military existed in these territories to defend them from 1967-the 1980s when the militias arose and brought the intifada. Yet, it is is the militias that are a problem to peace? Au contraire, they seem to be what brought Israel to the negotiating table.
Of course, this is one sided as well, because there were terrorist attacks from diaspora Palestinians in that time period. But, I think it shows well the issue of policy conception inside a bubble for both peoples.
Tess,
Can you think of anything Netanyahu could have said to convince Palestinians that "Hamas was the real obstacle to peace and statehood"?
A couple things come to mind:
1) Generally, if Netanyahu says it, Palestinians will disagree. Perhaps he could have achieved this aim by embracing Hamas. (I say this only half in jest.)
2) If the Palestinians don't already see Hamas as the "real obstacle to peace and statehood", which IMO is self evident but I grant that it may not be from the Palestinian perspective, really what could Netanyahu say that would bring them over.
Walt goes on to say that, because Netanyahu did nothing (in Walt's perception) to convince Palestinians that Hamas is the real obstacle to peace and statehood, that "...Either Bibi doesn't get it, or he doesn't care, or he’s a hostage to his own coalition..."
It's just possible that Netanyahu does get it, at least better than Walt, and understands that any attempt to manipulate Palestinian public opinion would have more than likely backfired.
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that Walt *always* veers to criticising Israel, finding them at fault, and denigrating their leaders?
Another obvious example in this blog entry is when Walt describes Netanyahu's condition that Israel be recognized as the Jewish state as "unacceptable if not insulting". Does the fact that the Palestinians feel this way reflect badly on Netanyahu, as Walt would have us believe? Or the Palestinians, who showed Walt's characterization was probably accurate by their strident reaction to it immediately afterward?
States are not monolithic and unchangeable. Each nation has changed over time from their population make up and demography. I think it short cited to call any thing a "..." identifying either religion, color or ethnicity "state".
I could say the same for the United states. Right now, and traditionally based on colonial and post-colonial population transfers, the USA could be called a "White" nation. It has been the dominant demographic, though it is changing. If white America were to move to have the USA called the "white" nation, in feeling of threat from demographic change by mestizo Latinos, African Americas, ect... whose fault would it be for the insult or being insulted? I know you don't see it as the same, more than likely. But, morally, it is not very different for the same disrespect of Rousseau's individual level rights of social contract. That is to submit the right to resist to a sovereign for protection, ect... and the sovereign then abuses or excludes segments of the population from that social contract.
Non jews are 20% of Israel's current population. So, it is not their state, though they live there and pay taxes? And, what is more, demographic change calculations show that Jews will not be a majority in the region by 2050, so what is the significance of the label anyway to have it recognized?
"I think it short cited to call any thing a "..." identifying either religion, color or ethnicity "state"."
That is your prerogative. However, Israel is far from unique in being a country serving as the means of self-determination of a people. This includes the future Palestine as it is envisioned. The point is not whether you approve of this kind of nationalism, but what it indicates about the Palestinians, who obviously don't have a problem with religious or ethnic nationalism, only with recognizing the Jewish incarnation of the same.
When Palestine is created, the Israeli Palestinian Arabs will have the opportunity to exercise their right of return to their own "Palestinian", "Arab" and "Muslim" state, all spelled out in their Constitution, if they find living in a Jewish state intolerable. If they choose not to, they will remain citizens of Israel and be equal under the law.
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As an aside - The demographic numbers may play out in Israel and the territories as you cite them, but not in Israel as it will be made up after the eventual Palestinian state is formed. If current demographic trends hold, Arabs will actully be the same or smaller proportion of the population than they are now. The Haredi have a much higher birth rate than Israeli Arabs, who do have a higher birthrate than non-Haredi Israelis. However, the gap between non-Haredi and Arab is much smaller than the gap between both of them and Haredi.
That is your prerogative.
It is not merely a prerogative if you read the statements I made about the nature of social contract. It violates the nature of social contract. It is not to the people to be supportive of everything the states in the region, which control them, do blindly. The state also has the responsibility to the people who surrender certain rights to them, or it may face armed resistance. Israel interestingly enough, is demanding that Palestinians surrender right of self defense to a state that won't and or can't defend them. And, that state is to surrender part of its citizen's rights, to Israel, because Israel is the hegemon in the region. And, the hegemon is saying directly, we don't recognize you and have physically exploited you for decades.
Certainly, all states in that region realize the peril of violating the rights of their people. The military and secret policing of the region is nearly as heavy as the Soviet bloc had been. The nations have faced civil unrest for multiple reasons. Israel right now controls Palestinian lives. It is not a contract, but certainly there is a right to resist this if it is clear they are never to be included. Honestly, I think, since you went there with me, you are the one stuck in a 'prerogative' or bubble such that you don't apply equal rights to all actors.
BTW, that does not mean that I think the PA is right. I don't mean to present it as a state, for it is not yet, just to say from what it is now, what it would be as a state. Each iteration of the Constitution seems less liberal. And, corruption still reigns. I equally distrust the integrity of both sides. That is why the right to hold government accountable in the nature of social contract is so important.
I think today we are so used to the idea of states and state's power, we forget their power derives from the will of those that are under that state. The citizens, and lessers, like slaves and occupied peoples, are only as beholden to the state as the state is to the people under its power. They have a right of descent if that power abuses them, as to the citizens themselves.
On the issue of Haredi, the last study I saw said in 2020, Haredi will still be less than the current Arab population by 3%. Haredi grow at a 6.5 per family, most of the Jews in the nation, however, are not Haredi. The rest of Israel's Jewish population is growing at a 2.6 children per family rate. Arabs seem to increase their family size at a 4.9 children.
Yes, at some point, all things remaining equal, the Haredi will change the population dynamic. Not just of the Arabs, but of the Israelis, and liberal Israel will pass. Before that point, they need to hit a certain percentage of Israel's population first.
And, this does not address the outflow that Israel experiences of Jews that are sick of the insecurity. Nor, does it deal with the numbers that are counted as living in Israel but are actually living in the diaspora. The way Israel conducts their population surveys is quite interesting. Check out their methodology, it is thought evoking.
"Can you think of anything Netanyahu could have said to convince Palestinians that "Hamas was the real obstacle to peace and statehood"?"
How about Hamas can't even negotiate peace with other factions of it's own people let alone Israel, who it has repeatedly sworn never to ever make peace with, and Abbas has said peace between the Palestinian Authority and Hamas could take 10 years.
Stephen M. Walt is the Robert and Renée Belfer professor of international relations at Harvard University.
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