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Bin Laden's book club

Several friends and associates have asked me how it feels to have our book on the Israel lobby plugged by Osama bin Laden. While it is usually gratifying to get kudos for your work, that is certainly not the case in this instance, given what bin Laden has done in the past and given what he stands for. I just wish we had captured him long ago, making it impossible for him to issue any statements to the world.
I do have a few additional comments on the matter, however. To start, Bin Laden's announcement that there is a powerful "Israel lobby" in the United States is not exactly a news flash. If he had not cited us, he could just have easily quoted the late Senator Barry Goldwater (R-AZ) who wrote in his memoirs that "I was never put under greater pressure than by the Israeli lobby ... it's the most influential crowd in Congress by far." Or he could have cited former Senator Ernest ("Fritz") Hollings (D-SC), who said that "you can't have an Israel policy other than what AIPAC gives you around here." He might have invoked notorious terrorist sympathizer Newt Gingrich (R-GA), who called AIPAC "the most effective general interest group ... across the entire planet," or even former Senate Minority Leader Richard Gephardt (D-MO) who told AIPAC's annual conference that "without your constant support ... the U.S.-Israeli relationship would not be." Heck, bin Laden could even have brought up Alan Dershowitz, who once wrote that "my generation of Jews ... became part of what is perhaps the most effective lobbying and fundraising effort in the history of democracy." In short, he didn't need our book to tell people there's an Israel lobby with a powerful influence on U.S. Middle East policy.
It is also important to ask why bin Laden called attention to U.S. support for Israel, and to the lobby's role in generating that support. He did this because he understands -- along with plenty of other people -- that the combination of unconditional U.S. support for Israel and Israel's brutal treatment of the Palestinians is a source of great resentment in the Arab and Islamic world. This is hardly an original insight on his part either. The 9/11 Commission reported "it is simply a fact that American policy regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict ... is [a] dominant staple of popular commentary across the Arab and Muslim world." imilarly, the State Department's Advisory Group on Public Diplomacy for the Arab and Muslim World found that "citizens in these countries are genuinely distressed at the plight of the Palestinians and at the role they perceive the United States to be playing." Not only is Bin Laden personally motivated by this issue -- as his own family and prior statements attest -- he knows it is a good way to attract support.
Third, my co-author and I have a very different idea of how to deal with this situation than bin Laden does. He recruits people to engage in despicable acts of violence against innocents, in the grandiose (and vain) hope of toppling all of the states in the region (not just Israel). He's perfectly happy to kill Muslims, Christians, Jews, atheists, and just about anyone else if it will advance that goal. By contrast, Professor Mearsheimer and I reject his aims and abhor his chosen means. We believe the United States should defend Israel's existence, and we said so repeatedly in our book. (My guess is that bin Laden missed those parts). We also think the United States should oppose Israel's occupation of the West Bank and control of Gaza and treat Israel the same way it treats other democracies. Why? Because ending the occupation and having a normal relationship with Israel would be better for us, better for Israel, and better for our other friends in the region. In short, we want the United States to pursue a smarter and more ethical policy in the Middle East. Needless to say, that's a far cry from bin Laden's murderous agenda.
Ironically, bin Laden's "endorsement" of our book could even be a self-defeating gesture. If enough people were to read our book and U.S. policy were to evolve in the manner we recommend, bin Laden's call to arms would fall on deaf ears and he'd become even more irrelevant than he is today. Furthermore, any would-be imitators who might subsequently emerge would find an even less receptive audience.
And if Juan Cole is right and bin Laden's statement was a sign of weakness, so much the better.
AFP/Getty Images









Crossposting from Marc
Crossposting from Marc Lynch's blog.
Lynch:
Of course, having the debate and W&M's treatment of the topic are two different things.
You will note the 'People who bought this also bought..." list at Amazon shows that W&M's book resonates with people of a certain mindset. Probably if the book was a bit more scholarly and a bit less polemical that wouldn't be as much the case. As it is, W&M start with a conclusion, present the evidence that supports their conclusion while omitting the evidence that contradicts it.
Obviously they are trying to influence the public debate and realized they wouldn't move too many opinions with a balanced, scholarly work. Walt's blog here, which also takes a very one-sided look at the conflict, is not any different.
The fact that bin Laden and other anti-Semites take solace in W&M's writing doesn't discredit it, it is the methodology that discredits it.
At root, both sides have powerful lobbies and probably the Arab side throws around more money. This comes via the oil lobby, cushy post-government employment and gifts to institutions such as yours, Marc. While the side W&M takes does resonate with some, it generally doesn't resonate with the American people. Since it can't be that they are wrong, there must be another explanation -- hence the fact that Walt now spends the majority of his professional career (if his blogging and talks are any indication) focusing on his "Lobby".
And is it really any more mysterious than the fact that the academics in middle eastern studies, who are subsidized by Arab money, take one stance and the politicians, who are answerable to the American people, take another?
Dave! Let's join the battle again
Let's not conflate things: We're talking about the Israelis and Palestinians. "Arab money" does not influence Congress on this issue. Witness the congressional resolutions on the conflict. Try to find one bill that advocates for the Palestinian people.
Ever heard of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy? (NEOCON for short).
"Arab money" does not
A number of things here:
1) Of course there are pro-Arab lobbying groups distributing money to Congress.
2) Congressional actions are not solely dependent on PAC monies, but also in part on what their constituencies want. Since the majority of American people are pro-Israel, the pro-Arab PAC's are fighting an uphill battle, so to speak, and the opposite is true for pro-Israel PAC's.
3) I am not conflating anything here, I am addressing Walt's work. If you were familiar with it, you would know he defines his "Lobby" much more broadly than a small-l lobby geared towards Congress.
You can have the last word
I'll just note that nothing you wrote immediately above addressed anything in my comment.
Incorrect (again)
You are incorrect. I directly addressed your charge that I was conflating things, and trying to address what you wrote in context of what Walt and I did. You think I didn't address what you said, but that is because you didn't really address what I wrote, but rather posited a series of suppositions that were either tangential, incorrect, or just plain non-sequitors.
To wit:
1. Let's not conflate things: We're talking about the Israelis and Palestinians.
When Walt writes about his "Lobby", he certainly isn't limiting his writing to Israel-Palestine. Walt was talking about the Lobby and so was I. So "we" (Walt and I, because I addressed the section he wrote about the Lobby in general) were not talking about Israelis and Palestinians. I can't say what was in your mind when you interjected. Your statement is incorrect.
2 "Arab money" does not influence Congress on this issue.
First, "this issue" to which you refer is not what was being discussed. Second, as I noted, the influence Walt ascribes to his Lobby is not limited to Congress. Third, as I described, part of the reason that the Lobby appears so successful is that they are lobbying for things Congress would be impelled to do anyway because of public opinion. In other words, can one tell how much the Lobby really influences Congress at all? (It would have been appropriate for Walt to have attempted to analyze this question, rather than cherry pick a bunch of quotes as "proof" of the Lobby's power vis-a-vis Congress.) Your statement is tangential, based on your previous incorrect assertion about what was being discussed.
3. Witness the congressional resolutions on the conflict. Try to find one bill that advocates for the Palestinian people.
See number 2.
4. Ever heard of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy? (NEOCON for short).
One group Walt considers as part of the Lobby among what has to be hundreds if not thousands. Basically a non-sequitor.
Bottom line, you want to play word games, but on your terms. You just aren't as good/clever as you think. A bit more knowledge about the conflict wouldn't hurt either. Thanks for the last word, but from what little I have seen of you, I am quite sure you won't be able to let it rest at that ;-). If not in this thread, then another. Talk to you then.
you prove the point
"the majority of american people are pro-Israel"
that is correct. and the totality of the mass media entertainment market is pro-Israel (hollywood).
which show do americans watch that have an anti-israeli bias?
You prove the point: in SPITE of controlling the media market, there are a significant portion in america who disagree with israel. an overwhelming majority of people in the world think israelis are bullies.
Similarly, the totality of
Similarly, the totality of the mass media entertainment market (and all media, for that matter) put out by the Palestinians is anti-Israel.
So the chicken and egg question in both cases is...have the populations formed opinions based on their media, or are their media informed by their opinions.
Any quesses as to what their media are showing?
Food for thought.
Sir, what is this Palestinian
Sir, what is this Palestinian media of which you speak? I think you are stretching a bit here....
And I know what media the rest of the world is showing; namely, actual pictures of actual events. Remember when they used to do that here?
A glimpse of what the
A glimpse of what the Palestinian media is showing:
http://www.pmw.org.il/
What the rest of the world is showing:
UK
The heavy hitter - the BBC
Has spent almost $300,000 to cover up a report on their biased reporting in the middle east
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-444074/BBC-pays-200-000-cover-report-anti-Israel-bias.html
In another instance, an independent panel found the BBC ...did "not consistently constitute a full and fair account of the conflict but rather, in important respects, presents an incomplete and in that sense misleading picture..."
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1145961306895&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Spain
A paper will publish an interview with David Irving, an infamous Holocaust denier, in a series in which "different WWII experts give their insights into the events surrounding the war, as a lead up to the 70th anniversary of the start of WWII."
(In their next series, Is the Earth round?, they will interview noted 'flat-earthers' for their opinions.)
http://www.spanishnews.es/20090904-paper-will-print-holocaust-denial-interview/id=889/
Sweden
Published article alleging Israeli army kills Palestinians to harvesting their organs
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1110033.html
Middle East
"In Syria government-controlled television channels occasionally broadcast mini-series concerning the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, along with several other anti-semitic themes."
"In October 2002, a private Egyptian television company Dream TV produced a 41-part "historical drama" A Knight Without a Horse (Fars Bela Gewad), largely based on the Protocols,[63] which ran on 17 Arabic-language satellite television channels, including government-owned Egypt Television (ETV)"
"In April 2004, the Iranian television station Al-Alam broadcast Al-Sameri wa Al-Saher, a series that reported as fact several conspiracy theories about the Holocaust, Jewish control of Hollywood, and the Protocols."
"In 2008 "The Secret of Armageddon" - An Iranian TV "Documentary" Claiming That "a Jewish Plan for the Genocide of Humanity," includes a conspiracy for the takeover of Iran by local Jewish and Bahá'í communities was based on the Protocols."
""the television series, Ash-Shatat ("The Diaspora"), which centred on the alleged conspiracy of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion to dominate the world, was aired in October and November 2003 by the Lebanon-based satellite television network Al-Manar, owned by Hezbollah.""
Russia
"(the mass media) "all over the Soviet Union portrayed the Zionists and Israeli leaders as engaged in a world-wide conspiracy along the lines of the old Protocols of Zion. It was, Sovietskaya Latvia wrote 5 August 1967, an 'international Cosa Nostra with a common centre, common programme and common funds'"."
(All of the instance of the protocols being produced beyond book form noted above are taken from this Wikipedia article. There are many, many other instances of the book itself being published and promoted as fact, including in school textbooks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion#Contemporary_usage_and_popularity
)
Spam
Spam somewhere else. I just looked at another article with the same response, nice ad hominem approach.
I disagree with most of the
I disagree with most of the thesis of your book, but also think bin Laden's views on your book are entirely irrelevant. Manson liked the Beatles; this said nothing about the Beatles.
Yah - and Tarantino obviously
Yah - and Tarantino obviously is in love with Gobbles - that's the real reason the Germans are all cheering Inglorious Basterds.
The trouble with Bin Laden, is that he never even read Walt's book. Most endorsements suppose that is the case. So does his count?
Azzam the American
I also disagree with the premise of your work on the Israel lobby, which is that by its nature it necessarily works against American security interests in a way the myriad other lobbies and specific interests of the nation do not.
However, I doubt bin Laden even read the thing or the other two. I would bet it was Adam Gadahn aka Azzam the American, AQ's advisor on American communications. He seems relatively skilled at finding the key nodes of American culture which seemingly overlap with AQ's interests. If he wasn't partying with OBL, he would be surely be writing for the Huffington Post.
Adam Gadahn
The more reasonable assumption, based on his biography, is that Adam Gadahn (Pearlman) may be an agent provocateur being run by the same neoconservative/World War IV political faction that has been trying to tie its political opponents to Muslim terrorists for years now. (How many times have we heard neocons bash away at Noam Chomsky or Jimmy Carter in the pages of FrontPage Magazine and similar publications?) It baffles me that anyone, especially folks as bright as Walt and Cole, would accept the authenticity of any of these supposed al-Qaeda communiques without the strongest proof. The potential for mischief-making in this situation is immense.
Yes
I agree with this. I like to stay away from most of the conspiracy theories, but I haven't paid attention to any of these alleged Bin Laden communiques for years. I think they're fake.
Bogus OBL communiques
If these alleged OBL communiques are fake -- and they probably are -- they put the entire official 9/11 narrative at risk.
Know your enemy
I have noticed that bin Laden has a sophisticated understanding of American political dynamics and public opinion. So, I have to wonder what he sees to gain by undercutting your teachings. If he could somehow discredit your views, America and Israel would continue to do things that actually hurt Israel’s and our best long term interests. Also, we would continue down the path we are now following in Afghanistan and driving a wedge further and further between America and the Muslim world.
I definitely have to say that he sees you as a serious threat to Al Qaeda and he is trying to under-cut your influence.
Bob Spencer
Too Clever by Half
I have noticed that bin Laden has a sophisticated understanding of American political dynamics and public opinion. So, I have to wonder what he sees to gain by undercutting your teachings.
Yeah, maybe Bin Laden and his vaunted sophistication - even if these communiques aren't 100% BS - isn't all that sophisticated after all.
It unequivally shows that 9/11 is related to the settlements
Bin Laden has in many respects further proven the legitimacy of "The Israel Lobby"by CLEARLY demonstrating that the ongoing issue of the Israeli settlements and the occupation they necessitate are a MAJOR influence in terrorist recruiting and fund raising, and that this key fact is quashed and dismissed by a majority of our leaders in the House and Senate simply because it is politically uncomfortable for them to accept it, act on it, and in doing so, protect the Nation that they claim to serve.
even after this clear evidence, they will continue to do the politically expedient thing and ignore it at our nations peril, when in fact they ought to be working RIGHT NOW to cut off the Netanyahu administration from all foreign and military aid, and then hit them with sanctions if necessary,if they do not comply with the standing US demand to freeze all settlement activity and prepare for an almost total withdrawal of all occupied territory.
treat Israel the same, really?
Mr. Walt says he wants the US to treat Israel the same as other democracies.
Is Mr. Walt suggesting American troops defend Israel's borders? The same as the US protects Europe, Japan and Korea? and at a far greater expense than current economic and military aid.
That would be a very welcome development from the average Israeli perspective. Reducing the military burden, we can pull out of the territories knowing that any violation will incur a US military response. Mothers, fathers, children won't have to be worried about loved ones in the territories. Young people won't have to constantly worry that they will be in harms way....
Please America TREAT Israel as you do other democracies :)
furthermore
which border? the 1967 border? no settlements?
furthermore israel will be able to remove their embargo on imports, exports, air travel, road travel, etc.
however israel might miss crushing the arabs, blowing up homes, using human shields, etc
BurningChrome - It might surprise you
but there is a realist case for inserting American soldiers as a peace-keeping force. Not to defend Israeli borders, but as a buffer between Palestinians and Israelis, including manning the checkpoints. Now, in practice, it will be very hard to produce a workable agreement to use American soldiers in this way, and Palestinian rockets will always be a problem, but the benefits if it succeeded would be enormous (and positive) compared to the current "benefit" of our subsidies to Israel.
When Walt says treat Israel as other democracies, one of the main things he means is stop the foreign aid. What other democracies get our foreign aid? Not military sales, but actually giving our money away.
Another thing, realists generally aren't in favor of our soldiers in Japan, Korea and Germany. The benefits are very small, if they even exist.
Last point - In all cases, "mothers, fathers and children won't have to worry about loved ones in the territories" because any peace deal will require them to return to Israel.
re: foreign aid
Foreign aid to Israel is a drop in the bucket compared to the direct expenditures made by the US in Europe and the Far East and more to the point far cheaper than what stationing of US troops would cost.
As for a peace agreement, it wasn't Israel that walked out of both Camp David or Taba. It wasn't Israel that rejected partition in 1948 and started a war. It wasn't Israel that formulated "the 3 Nos"
You won't find Israeli TV shows broadcasting some idiot Rabbi saying it is a an obligation for every Jew to kill an Arab or a Muslim. Like what I see being broadcast on PA TV an Imam saying is obligation of every Muslim to kill a Jew...
If you think the Israel\Arab conflict is just a border dispute then you don't know what the conflict is.
Resolution 242
But surprisingly it is Israel that is illegally occupying sovereign land - comparing a legitimate right to self defense (the early years of Israel) to old world style colonialism shouldn't fit into the same category. The Israel of today isn't building settlements on a very legitimate basis, and in fact, doesn't look so good on our part when we do finance in aid. Aiding Israel Counterproductive? Absolutely.
Do you even know what 242 says?
1) Absent a peace agreement Israel is 100% legally in the territories.
The essence of 242 is land for peace.
2) I have no idea what you are nattering on about sovereignty. When 242 was passed in 1967, I am guessing you mean what is called the west bank? the understanding was basically that a border would be drawn up between Israel and Jordan as there was no previously agreed border, and consistent with that it made no directives as to sovereignty.
3) That is where things still stand to date that there is no border. However that is not really the dispute. Both sides know within a few hundred meters where the border will be established. The core issue is that the PA has to recognise Israel as a Sovereign State, i.e. a Jewish State, and PERMANENTLY forgo any further claims on Israeli territory something they have so far refused to do.
So to sum up what you just said
So to sum things up - you think the settlements are legal and just? Explain to me why settlements are built inside the West Bank on gaint hills, with massive amounts of security, and resembles something like that of a 19th century fortress? Notice how they are inside the West Bank - that's not Israel.
And as for democracy
If you argue that it is absolutely fine for those settlements to be built in the West bank - don't voting rights get extended to the Palestinians who live there too for Israeli elections? If not, Israel is obviously not a democracy (it's doing exactly what the world is condemning her for; forceful expansion). If so, I wonder how the elections would be swayed with its new constituency...
No need to quibble. The US
No need to quibble. The US state department found more than 30 years ago that the settlements are illegal, and that ruling stands.
Your arguing with someone who would actually defend the worlds only violently enforced colonial settler movement. It's pointless.
You are putting words in my mouth
My feeling is you have never been here so have no idea what you are talking about. I have never seen any of the settlements even remotely look like a any century fortress. You may be confusing some of them with actual military bases. The settlements look like your typical American Gated communities.
They build on high hills for two reasons
1) The hilltops are unsettled. Arabs traditionally live in the lowlands so they don't have to carry resources up a hill. Modern technology has made that a largely irrelevant consideration.
2) Hills provide geographic safety
Also I would add
1) I don't think all settlements are all alike or all settlers are alike. It is a far from Black and White issue you imagine it to be.
2) Most of the settlements with large population are relatively adjacent to the previous 1948 Green Line and will be included into Israel. The rest will be evacuated or an arrangement will be made allowing the Jews to stay as residents of Palestine, ok this is a dream but one that is proffered up. The settlements that will stay are fairly contiguous and amount to about 2% of the land so far that would be swapped out.
3) As to the why? It is Judea and Samaria, Judea is where the word Jew comes from. These are the real ancestral lands of the Jews not the coastal plains where modern Israel ended up. So for many of these people it is a matter of heart and soul. Outside commentators calling this Palestinian Land or the more offensive Greater Israel don't get it.
4) The Jewish population in West bank is now around 2-5 percent. Before the Arabs chased them out in the 20s and 30s they were between 30 - 40 percent of the population. These were not European Zionists, just ordinary Jews mostly Sephardic that could trace ancestry back past 700 +years
As I said the border has for the most part been agreed to. The problem is that the PA leadership doesn't want to sign a permanent accord that basically states they are renouncing all claims on Israel territory, and that any refugee resettling will be done in Palestine not Israel.
Based on your world view
Gated Communities with armed towers and high walls on hills - i'm pretty sure the Israelis wouldn't want Palestinians on hills around them. A fortress is a fortress whether you like it or not.
So based on your logic, because Jewish people used to live there, they have a right to take the land from the people currently living there (who also used to live there) - seems like an ideologically driven policy and not a very realistic one. We're also dealing with a much different scenario - the fact an Israel exists and a large population of refugees along the border.
Don't bring up the subject of biblical history to justify a right of expansion, that's just absurd. If that was the case for all peoples we would see the Native Americans reclaim all of their land, the Greeks in Turkey, and a very happy Mongolia.
"2%" of the land is still "2%"
Are you saying that Israeli blood is worth more than Palestinian?
What justification does Israel have to build settlements illegally?
What you just gave is nothing of that sort - the year is 2009 not 2000 BC.
You need to learn to read
English is like my fifth language so sometimes I am not clear always.
I was clear here. I never gave you my opinion. I reported for you the feeling of the people who live there. In very few if any instances was the tand taken. It was either already owned by Jews, as noted they were a substantial population before 1948 or bought since or they were state lands. They didn't build over existing Arab communities.
I also am definitely not talking about the Bible or any religious claims much less arguing for them. I don't know where you get 4000 years ago from.This area was a heavily Jewish populated Area before 1928 and the successive campaigns to force Jews out.
Justification is that it is traditionally a Jewish area and every existing US government has confirmed they support the border being drawn beyond these communities so it was not unreasonable to build there.
And your segueuay about value of blood???????? Off subject....
It is the Arab leaders that diminish the value of Arab blood by provoking needless confrontations they are ill equiped to prosecute.
In your own words
"I also am definitely not talking about the Bible or any religious claims much less arguing for them."
In your own words
"3) As to the why? It is Judea and Samaria, Judea is where the word Jew comes from. These are the real ancestral lands of the Jews not the coastal plains where modern Israel ended up. So for many of these people it is a matter of heart and soul. Outside commentators calling this Palestinian Land or the more offensive Greater Israel don't get it."
And if there were 30% jewish population in 1920 - was there a jewish state in order to vote? No. If there can somehow be another 30% to "justify" the expansion, surely the Palestinians that make up the other 70% would have the same voting rights - which seems to upset the jewish majority electorate - unless of course that isn't Israels objective and it would rather expel the Palestinians who have been living there for just as long and longer.
There is no justification is such an illegal act - And YES it is unreasonable, United Nations Security Council Resolution 465.
re: Security Council Resolution 465
You talked about resolution 242, so I answered to that.
Resolution 465 was not passed under Chapter 7 so it is non binding, that really is the bottom line. Resolution 242 and 338 were passed under chapter 7, so are binding and make it clear that the border has yet to be established.
When I said 30% of the population I was referring to the whole of what is now called the West Bank. In fact the population was largely concentrated between Hevron and Jerusalem, where it was around 70% of the population. The Hevron Jerusalem corridor was apportioned to Israel in 1948 and that is where the most of the 'settlement' activity is.
As for voting you need to be an Israeli citizen. Any area formally annexed by Israel has included full citizenship to anybody living in the area. Most Arabs have rejected citizenship so that is why they can't vote. They have accepted residence and so have same rights as Israelis so many have moved to West Jerusalem and into Israel 'proper'.
However you have some groups who many categorise as Palestinian and or Arab who have taken citizenship, Samarians and Domri (Domri are what you call Roma or Gypsies).
But the point is that arguing about settlements isn't the core impediment to peace. The borders are already well understood give or take a few meters here and there. The obstacle is the PA committing to a\the border as final, and the border is determinative of the rights of the parties.
In other words Israel will determine the nature of it's state as the sovereign, or if you still don't understand it Arab refugees will be settled in Palestine not Israel. Just like Jewish refugees have been settled in Israel. That is the position of Israel and is equally accepted by groups such as Meeretz, Gush Shalom, Peace Now.....
As for the Settlers all carrying machine guns, again it means people are talking about something they have no knowledge of. That is a stereotype makes a great photo op but VERY VERY FEW people are carrying sub machine guns in VERY VERY FEW of the settlements.
The Army protects all of Israel, most attacks are against Israel 'proper'. This was the problem before 1967 just as it is problem today so settlements as provocative as they maybe are not the cause of the conflict.
Israel is on a collision course with the entire world
The entire world, including the United States and all European governments, strongly opposes Israel's settlements policy. It's not difficult to predict the outcome of this conflict. No amount of sophistical and slippery apologetics for what is essentially a racist enterprise is going to avert the inevitable.
Gated communities that
Gated communities that requite a full time army for protection
and Jewish only roads, with guys walking around with sub machine guns. Who burn the crops of Palestinian farmers. And throw stones at kids and attack passersby.
Sure. Very suburban.
Please try covering for apartheid and ethnic cleansing with someone who might actually believe your tortured logic.
im confused
burning chrome said the US can police the borders, so the IDF can go home. so according to him, either there are no settlements, or the settlements are not guarded?
burning chrome can you clarify?
I believe that his INTENTION
I believe that his INTENTION to obfuscate.
Is the OBL communique authentic?
Why would anyone believe that this communique is authentic? It has a distinct odor of fakery about it, as do many of the preceding communiques from OBL. If it is indeed fake, it is certainly an exercise in psychological warfare.
Isn't it interesting that several of these alleged al-Qaeda communiques have attempted to link the favorite enemies of the neocons (Noam Chomsky, Stephen Walt, Jimmy Carter, etc.) to Osama bin Laden? Isn't there something ridiculous on its face about this? About Adam Gadahn?
Please delete this dupe
Why would anyone believe that this communique is authentic? It has a distinct odor of fakery about it, as do many of the preceding communiques from OBL. If it is indeed fake, it is certainly an exercise in psychological warfare.
If something is in the US
If something is in the US public's interest it ought to percolate naturally to the top of the heap of legislative agendas.
The more powerful the lobby, the more boosting the cause needs, and the more it is likely against the interest of the US public.
All (paid) lobbying should be outlawed as bribery.
The US is wrong to support Egypt and Israel.
Walt you say " We believe the United States should defend Israel's existence, and we said so repeatedly in our book."
I agree, but I think the form of Israel worth defending is differnt from the current form.
e.g. It is worth defending Germany, but not Nazi Germany.
It is worth defending South Africa, but not Apartheid South Africa.
It is worth defending Israel, but not the current aparthied form of Israel.
Israel surely has a right to exist, but not in its current form. And we don't need to spend $1 of the taxpayer's cash defending that nation (or Egypt -- another kettle of fish).
Godwin's Law. You lose.
Godwin's Law. You lose.
Godwin's Law not applicable here
SirMix is not comparing anybody to a Nazi. Please read about Godwin's Law, as your comment is certainly Quirk's Exception.
I agree with you
on everything but the first and third sentences, and I think Walt would too. On the second, didn't you mean to start the sentence with "The less popular an idea is, ..."?
This is muddled and Utopian. There is no such thing as the US public's interest. Individuals have interests and they band together to express these interests, but never in the maximal case of the US public.
Osama Bin Laden says 9/11 is
Osama Bin Laden says 9/11 is connected to the Israeli settlement program and its supporters (lackeys) in the US.
ITs Time to either tear the settlements down, or stop funding Israel. Seems like a simple choice.
Osama for Sec. of Defense? Or
Osama for Sec. of Defense? Or State?
Your idea of putting bin Laden in charge of US foreign policy is simply brilliant!
Brilliant
It would be pretty brilliant to stop a policy that is entirely counterproductive to the United States, Israel, and the Middle East. Whether the words came out of Osama or a talking goat - it makes sense to change a policy when it clearly gets the unwanted attention and responses that it produces. Osama for Sec? No thanks.
Yes!
Yes, exactly! If the U.S. is tricky-dicky enough to plant an American (Gadahn) inside the core of al Qaeda in order to discredit the Chomskys of the world, why not super-double-trick them by appointing bin Laden Secretary of Defense! That's just the sort of thing those dastardly neocons would do!
Curse them and those nefarious Joooos......
All I am saying is that those
All I am saying is that those who back Israels settlements and occupation keep insisting that there is no connection between those activities and the terror that befell the United States.
Seems that one has been put to bed. The occupation and the settlements inspire terror against the US, and will continue to until they are tossed into the dustbin of history where they belong. Why should we suffer for something that our own state department has deemed illegal decades ago and that only brings misery and loss for all parties (except, possibly, the radical, crazy settlers who could care less how many Americans, Palestinians or other innocent Israelis die as the result of their pointless actions.
"We believe the United States
"We believe the United States should defend Israel's existence, and we said so repeatedly in our book."
I would really like to read Professor Walt's vision for what the final status agreement between Israelis, Arab countries, and Palestinians should be, and, more importantly, how to get there. It's easy to criticize other's ideas when you don't have any of your own.
We can call it:
"The Professor Stephen M. Walt Realist Plan for Solving the Israeli/Arab/Palestinian Conflict"
I expect to hear echoes.
Does it justify to continue poor behavior?
Does it justify to continue poor behavior? Then the role of being critical serves a purpose - you can't have a solution unless you are working with the right equation. Clearly working with an Israel that is illegally occupying land is not the right equation you want to work with, the limits of such an endevor are pretty limited.