Deep-Sixing the Goldstone Report

Fri, 10/02/2009 - 3:46pm

While everyone else is welcoming the hopeful signs from the nuclear negotiations with Iran -- and I'm cautiously encouraged too --I'm going back to the less-than-hopeful news from elsewhere in the Middle East. According to the Associated Press, the Palestinian National Authority has agreed to defer its efforts to get the Goldstone Report on war crimes in the Gaza conflict referred out of the U.N. Human Rights Commission to the Security Council or the General Assembly. This seems puzzling: given the findings of the report, and the fact that roughly 1,300 Palestinians were killed in the carnage (along with 13 Israelis), why would they decide to hold back? Simple: because the United States, principled defender of human rights, put a lot of pressure on them. Here's the Associated Press's explanation (my emphasis):

Senior U.S. and Palestinian officials in Washington and Ramallah, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, said the Palestinian decision came after heavy U.S. pressure and a warning that going ahead with the resolution would harm the Middle East peace process."

A few comments. First, critics of the report -- including, unfortunately, senior officials in the United States government -- have repeatedly charged that the U.N. Human Rights Commission is biased against Israel and that the original charge given to Goldstone was slanted. I think there's merit to both charges, but they are also irrelevant to judging the report itself or determining how it should be handled. Why? Because Goldstone demanded that the original charge be modified to cover both sides' conduct before he accepted the job, and his demand was accepted by the UNHCR. The fact that the UNHCR has been overly concerned with Israel in the past is regrettable, but says nothing about the validity of the report itself. UNHCR didn't do the investigation and write the report; a distinguished international panel with impeccable credentials did. And other respected human rights organizations, such as Amnesty International, have endorsed the report's recommendations too.

Second, although the report contains damning evidence that both Israel and Hamas committed war crimes, its main recommendation is that the Security Council require each side to carry out credible investigations of their own conduct and take appropriate action against those responsible for any crimes that were committed. If the responsible parties do this, there is no danger of a subsequent referral to the International Criminal Court, because the Court only has jurisdiction when responsible authorities refuse to investigate in a credible manner.

The United States is reportedly encouraging Israel to conduct a thorough and fair-minded investigation, as are Israeli human rights organizations like B'tselem. And it should be noted that Israel has done so effectively on certain occasions in the past, such as the Kahan Commission that investigated the Sabra and Shatila massacres during the 1982 invasion of Lebanon. So in theory, Israel can avoid any call for sanction against specific individuals by doing a serious investigation of its own, provided that it doesn't just whitewash the whole business. (The same logic applies to Hamas, of course, and such a step would in fact be a very interesting move on their part. But I doubt they will.)

Third, it is more than a little ironic to see how the "peace process" (and by extension, the occupation itself) has become a reason to deep-six a report documenting human rights violations. (Never mind that the occupation is itself a violation of human rights and international law). Once again, U.S. policy inadvertently encourages Israeli intransigence: by driving a hard bargain with us on settlements and other key issues, the Israeli government gets its American patron to offer it more and more help (this time in the form of diplomatic cover) just to keep the illusion of a two-state settlement alive. Indeed, the obvious response to the U.S. argument that it has to suppress the Goldstone Report in order to protect the "peace process" is simple: what peace process?

Meanwhile, the stakes for the United States and President Obama just went up a little further. He laid down some big markers in his Cairo speech -- openly committing himself to "two states for two peoples" and declaring that "the settlements must stop" -- only to back down a few months later. Now he's apparently pressured the Palestinian Authority to put the Goldstone Report on the back burner, so as not to harm the "peace process." Well, ok, but he'd better produce something tangible for this latest Palestinian concession. If another six months goes by and there's no meaningful progress toward a two-state solution, then Abbas will look even more ineffectual, Hamas's hard-line approach will gain more adherents, and Obama's big push for Middle East peace will be seen as no different than the patently insincere "peace initiative" that President Bush began at Annapolis in 2007. We will be headed for a one-state solution -- if that is not already inevitable -- and that means big trouble for everyone. And that beautiful speech in Cairo will sound like yet another case of American double-talk.

SAID KHATIB/AFP/Getty Images



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“The fact that the UNHCR has

If anyone is interested in reading the actual legal analysis of the Gaza war. This is an excellent primer. It's from an Israeli perspective. Feel free to prove it wrong if you can.
http://www.jcpa.org/text/puzzle1.pdf

The fact that the UNHCR has been overly concerned with Israel in the past is regrettable”

That is the understatement of the year. It has condemned Israel more than all other countries in the world combined

"Because Goldstone demanded that the original charge be modified to cover both sides' conduct before he accepted the job"

A semantic change at best. For example, report colcuded that there was no evidence that Hamas used human shields or hid weapons in mosques when there is video proving that they did. You can look it up on youtube. The report concluded that Israel was guilty of deliberately targeting civilians (with no proof) and hamas did not eventhough it is obvious Hamas targets Israeli civilians in Sderot with its rockets

In addition, the very framing of the report adheres to the Palestinian narrative - just looking at the table of contents, we see that he chooses to start the "military operations" section with the "blockade," not with the rocket fire that preceded it by years. Similarly, he chooses December 27th - the day Israel attacked - as the start of "military operations" and ignores Hamas' declaration of war three days beforehand altogether.

"Second, although the report contains damning evidence that both Israel and Hamas committed war crimes"

Other than Goldstone accepting everything every Hamas spokesman said to them, what damning evidence against Israel is there. Have you even read the report?

An example is Hamas spokesman Islam Shahwan's account of "innocent Palestinian Policemen" being killed who were just handing out food. The accusation is accepted as fact. Goldstone doesn't even bother to check that his source also created and spread the story that Israel was tainting chewing gum with an aphrodisiac to "destroy the Palestinians' social infrastructure " A very credible source!

UNHCR didn't do the investigation and write the report; a distinguished international panel with impeccable credentials did. And other respected human rights organizations, such as Amnesty International, have endorsed the report's recommendations too.

Whether they had "impeccable credentials or not" the absolute demoloshing of the report's substance over the last few weeks is more important than "credentials."

Amnesty international has been proven in the last several months to one the most anti Israel NGOs in the world. Whether it is it's middle east branch fundraising in Saudi Arabia--a gross violator of human rights, its directors flatly saying they do not like Israel, or it's director with a Nazi fettish, etc... The same group that condemned an Israeli investigation before it was even released.
http://volokh.com/2009/08/04/more-on-human-rights-watchs-sarah-leah-whitson/
http://volokh.com/2009/08/17/joe-stork-of-human-rights-watch/
http://volokh.com/2009/07/15/jeffrey-goldberg-on-human-rights-watch/
http://volokh.com/posts/1252419984.shtml

as are Israeli human rights organizations like B'tselem.

The reason B'tslem wants Israel to investigate claims of abuse (there are 100 investigations going on right now). is because it believes the Goldstone report is utterly biased against Israel. If you know anything about B'tselem you know it is the first to criticize Israel at the slightest whiff of impropriety. Yet, it says the Goldstone report has no credibility on its gravest accusations.

[The Goldstone Report] mistaken in some of its gravest accusations against Israel, she believes. These include the claim that Israel intentionally targeted the civilian population rather than Hamas, and the "weak, hesitant way that the report mentions Hamas's strategy of using civilians [in combat]."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1254163545977

Even mary Robinson, the force behind the Israel hate fest Durban conference thought the report was biased.

Never mind that the occupation is itself a violation of human rights and international law

Says someone who obviously doesn’t know a thing about international law. Let’s look at what the writers of Resolution 242 actually said. It did not say Israel had to leave all the territories. And the occupation is perfectly legal when gained during a defensive war until all hostilities stop, which it was. You may argue that all settlements are not (as the below quotes disprove), but not the occupation.

As George Brown, British Foreign Secretary in 1967, said:
I have been asked over and over again to clarify, modify or improve the wording, but I do not intend to do that. The phrasing of the Resolution was very carefully worked out, and it was a difficult and complicated exercise to get it accepted by the UN Security Council. I formulated the Security Council Resolution. Before we submitted it to the Council, we showed it to Arab leaders. The proposal said 'Israel will withdraw from territories that were occupied', and not from 'the' territories, which means that Israel will not withdraw from all the territories.

Lord Caradon, chief author of the resolution

I would defend absolutely what we did. It was not for us to lay down exactly where the border should be. I know the 1967 border very well. It is not a satisfactory border, it is where troops had to stop in 1948, just where they happened to be that night, that is not a permanent boundary...[26]

Once again, U.S. policy inadvertently encourages Israeli intransigence: by driving a hard bargain with us on settlements and other key issues

You are living in bizarro world. The idiocy of the settlement issue was what stopped all peace negotiations. Once Obama drew his settlement line, the Palestinians would not negotiate. Now once the line has been removed, suddenly settlement negotiations are back on track.

Well, ok, but he'd better produce something tangible for this latest Palestinian concession.

Are you serious? It wasn’t a concession until Obama made it a condition. It would be as if Obama told the Palestinians that they had to completely forgo any claim to Jerusalem before negotiations began, then took that requirement away, and you called that an Israeli concession.

Hamas's hard-line approach will gain more adherents

Hamas’ hard line approach already has millions of adherents who voted for them. Why not say it is THEY who are the obstacle to peace. It is THEY who could stop any peace deal even if the Israelis and the PA agreed to one.

Honestly, Dave123, You don't

Honestly, Dave123, You don't sound desperate, or anything like that. Seriously. You sound really persuasive for a guy covering for the worlds only violently enforced colonial settler movement. I realize that it would be easier to make your assertions if Israel had not committed almost precisely the same types of war crimes in Lebanon, which also resulted in massive numbers of civilian deaths, wholesale destruction of civilian infrastructure and the use of banned weapons, but you still sound, under the circumstances, really resolute.

And the cool different color quotes really help give the impression that your saying something true in response to the quotes your addressing.

Dave, you forgot the following nugget:

"And it should be noted that Israel has done so effectively on certain occasions in the past, such as the Kahan Commission that investigated the Sabra and Shatila massacres during the 1982 invasion of Lebanon. So in theory, Israel can avoid any call for sanction against specific individuals by doing a serious investigation of its own, provided that it doesn't just whitewash the whole business. (The same logic applies to Hamas, of course, and such a step would in fact be a very interesting move on their part. But I doubt they will.)"
Notice how Walt is trying his best to equate Israel and Hamas, but in the end is forced to admit that one is a country with a Western legal system and the other is a fundamentalist regime guided entirely by religious law.

B'tselem initially called for

B'tselem initially called for the government of Israel to take the report seriously and to refrain from automatically attacking the credibility of the report committee:

With the publication of the Goldstone Committee report today, human rights organizations in Israel are studying the report and its conclusions, and they call upon the Israeli Government to take the report seriously and to refrain from automatically rejecting its findings or denying its legitimacy...

...The groups expect the Government of Israel to respond to the substance of the report's findings and to desist from its current policy of casting doubt upon the credibility of anyone who does not adhere to the establishment's narrative.

http://www.btselem.org/english/press_releases/20090915.asp

After reading the report, they came out with this statement:

The UN Human Rights Council and its recent Goldstone Report are either biased or mistaken respectively in some of their fundamental accusations against Israel, according to the director of one of Israel's main rights groups.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1254163545977&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

This is pretty credible stuff, given that B'tselem and Goldstone share goals, and B'tselem finds itself in opposition to the government of Israel the vast majority of the time. In this rare instance, they find themselves in agreement with the government (and, it is worth noting, with our government too).

It strikes me that Walt is taking as axiomatic the fact that the report isn't biased, which raises a few questions:

1) Did Walt read the 500-page report before defending it as being unbiased? If so, why didn't he mention it? If not, why is he doing the exact same thing for which he attacked the critics a few blog posts ago?

2) Why does Walt address the strawman of the criticism of the UNHRC and the report's mandate, but not the actual criticism of the report itself?

3) Does Walt recognize the logical fallacy of argumentum ad verecundiam (appeal to authority) and, if so, why is his entire case for the non-bias of the report based on this logical fallacy?

The entire paragraph starting with "A few comments..." is Walt at his intellectually dishonest best. First he sets up a strawman and then proceeds to knock it down with a logical fallacy! Great work, Walt, Harvard must be proud! As you note fairly often on this blog -- thank goodness for tenure :-).

Dave in D.C., Here is the

Dave in D.C.,

Here is the executive director of B'tselem

"After eight months of lobbying and advocacy, eight months in which B'Tselem sent dozens of cases to Israeli law enforcement officials, I must conclude that left to its own devices, Israel would never conduct the necessary investigations. Such an outcome is intolerable for the Palestinian residents of Gaza, who have no redress for all that they suffered. It is also harmful for Israeli society which has a right to know what was done in its name, and for Israeli democracy. And it is extremely damaging for the international legal system if such a high-profile case can be ignored. Under the circumstances, the international community cannot let this scenario occur.

So Israel now has a choice. It can continue to shoot the messenger and bury its head in the sand, hoping despite all signs to the contrary that this whole controversy will somehow disappear. Or it can initiate a genuine process of truth-telling and taking responsibility. Such a process may well be painful, but we will emerge stronger and healthier for it. As a friend and crucial supporter, the United States should not dismiss the report out of hand but rather encourage Israel to conduct serious investigations."

Having reservations about some of the reports findings is normal.That is, however, not a condemnation of all of the findings. They do not think it groundless, or any such thing.

Dave in D.C., I find your twisting of the B'tselem's stance on the issue to be indicative of a desire on your part to obfuscate the issues and to use any of the scant material at your disposal to try to smear the credibility of people who don't share your veiws and who would criticize Israels behavior in any capacity.

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jessica-montell/the-goldstone-report-on-g_b_306500.html

I am not twisting anything, I

I am not twisting anything, I presented what they said.

You can make your points without the personal attacks on your fellow commenters.

Just to be clear, this is the statement from B'tselem after reading the report:

The UN Human Rights Council and its recent Goldstone Report are either biased or mistaken respectively in some of their fundamental accusations against Israel, according to the director of one of Israel's main rights groups.

None of that takes away from the fact that B'tselem wants Israel to conduct more investigations. This is what you are addressing and is in the link I posted and it is what I was referring to when I said Goldstone and B'tselem share goals. It is exactly this aspect of B'tselem's character that makes their criticism of the report so credible.

BUT...it is also separate from what I was addressing - the fact that Walt is defending the report's findings in an intellectually dishonest way and apparently without having read it.

Give me a break. You are

Give me a break. You are personally attacking Walt and his credibility on a regular basis. I am attacking your credibility. Not as a person, but as a credible source of information, which you are not.

You did not present a fair assessment of the Btselem stance. Their point is that Israel did not cooperate AT ALL with the investigation, and therefore it is hard to counter, in a credible way, any of the charges, whether they disagree with some of them or not.

Finally, as there are a NUMBER of fundamental accusations in the report, the fact that they have a dispute with SOME OF THEM makes it quite clear that they do not necessarily dispute the general finding that Israel committed war crimes.

My point is that you are trying to twist their message to indict Walt's credibility, and in fact their findings SUPPORT Walt's position, except perhaps, in your mind.

No, you are misrepresenting

No, you are misrepresenting my position.

I think you are upset that I addressed a part of Walt's post that I wanted to, rather than what you would have preferred me to.

You may attack my credibility, but people will see the obvious ad hominem nature of your argument. I would rather you address the substance of my posts, and in either case it would be nice if you did it honestly rather than misrepresenting my position.

I would also submit that pointing out Walt's fallacious and intellectually dishonest reasoning above, while it does result in a hit on his credibility, is directly addressing the substance of what he posted. And while this is just a miniscule hit in the overall scheme of things, they add up. I'll direct you to Dan Drezner's latest post as an example of what is happening to Walt's credibility as a result of his writings and behavior. He is the butt of jokes here among his FP colleagues now.

No, I showed to be grossly

No, I showed to be grossly misrepresenting the position of B'tselem in order to baselessly attack Walt's position, which I generaly share.

There is nothing dishonest or logically incorrect in that, and I am not worried a single bit about the opinions of anyone who thinks it might be.

You misrepresented their opinion, as you did Walt's. Your actions speak for themselves.

You misrepresented their

You misrepresented their opinion, as you did Walt's.

The fact that B'tselem wants Israel to investigate itself (your point) and the fact that they say there are fundamental errors in Goldstone (my point), are not mutually exclusive. Neither preclude the other, and both can exist side by side. You are basically throwing a tantrum because I didn't address what you want me to. I will reiterate my suggestion that if you have a point to make, you can do it just as well without attacking other commenters on this board (and in dishonest fashion, I might add).

It is worth noting, in all your bloviating, that you never produced a quote in which B'tselem said that anything in the report was accurate. You only showed that they called for Israel to investigate itself, as did the link I produced.

On the other hand, I produced a quote in which they said:

The UN Human Rights Council and its recent Goldstone Report are either biased or mistaken respectively in some of their fundamental accusations against Israel, according to the director of one of Israel's main rights groups.

"Fundamental" - serving as, or being an essential part of, a foundation or basis; basic; underlying: fundamental principles; the fundamental structure. (source: dictionary.com)

The director of B'tselem also questions Goldstone's treatment of Hamas. Predictably, these errors go the other way - the mistakes favor Hamas. Among them, she cites the weak language and limited conclusions regarding Hamas (vs. the sweeping and, in her opinion, unwarranted conclusions about Israel). She also notes that Goldstone says he found no evidence of Hamas' use of mosques and civilian buildings for military purposes, and it doesn't criticize Hamas' firing from and shielding themselves within civilian areas, about which she says there is unignorable evidence.

It seems, then, that we

It seems, then, that we agree. B'tselem DOES feel that Israel committed SOME (look up the definition of the word some at dictionary.com, as it is a critical modifier in the sentence you seem so obsessed with) war crimes, and they have castigated Israel for willfully NOT cooperating with the UN in it's investigation. Therefore, it does not really cast any negative light on Walt's analysis whatsoever.

And, again, your actions speak for themselves.

It seems, then, that we

It seems, then, that we agree. B'tselem DOES feel that Israel committed SOME ... war crimes

No, we don't agree, and this isn't what B'tselem said. It seems that you are not only misrepresenting what I am saying now, but also B'tselem.

SOME of Goldstone's fundamental accusations against Israel were obviously false. This does not imply that the rest are true, as you slyly suggest. It only implies that they weren't as obviously false, and need more investigating. This is simple logic.

B'tselem is calling for Israel to investigate cases, including casess which B'tselem has itself sent to the government. Clearly they believe there is enough evidence to warrant this. Twisting this into B'tselem presuming Israel's guilt, as you do here, is dishonest.

Perhaps this much more

Perhaps this much more concise statement from B'tselems website will, at least for a moment, stop insisting that up is down and black is white. However, Since I doubt you will Actually stop even when confronted with the truth, I will make this my last post to you regarding these matters.

"15 Sept. '09: Human Rights groups in Israel in response to Goldstone Report: Israel Must Investigate 'Operation Cast Lead'

With the publication of the Goldstone Committee report today, human rights organizations in Israel are studying the report and its conclusions, and they call upon the Israeli Government to take the report seriously and to refrain from automatically rejecting its findings or denying its legitimacy.

Already it is clear that the findings of the report - written after gathering extensive information and testimonies from Israeli and Palestinian victims - will join a long series of reports indicating that Israel's actions during the fighting in Gaza, as well as the actions of Hamas, violated the laws of combat and human rights law.

Human rights organizations in Israel believe that the State of Israel must conduct an independent and impartial investigation into these suspicions and to cooperate with an international monitoring mechanism that would guarantee both the independence of that investigation and the implementation of its conclusions. The organizations have written to Israel's Attorney General to demand that he establish such an independent body to investigate the military's activities during “Cast Lead”, but he rejected their request.

The groups expect the Government of Israel to respond to the substance of the report's findings and to desist from its current policy of casting doubt upon the credibility of anyone who does not adhere to the establishment's narrative.

Organizations on this statement: Association for Civil Rights in Israel, Adalah, Bimkom, B’Tselem, Gisha, HaMoked, Physicians for Human Rights – Israel, The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel and Yesh Din."

Right next to this they feature a picture of what THEY describe as an Israeli White Phosphorus attack on a SCHOOL in Gaza.

Remember, up is down, black is white. the settlements are good, Israel is not becoming increasingly brutal in their attempt to hand onto a behavior that the rest of the world abhors.

Hello? I linked to that PR

Hello?

I linked to that PR and excerpted from it in my very first post in this thread. This is the part I reprinted in my post:

With the publication of the Goldstone Committee report today, human rights organizations in Israel are studying the report and its conclusions, and they call upon the Israeli Government to take the report seriously and to refrain from automatically rejecting its findings or denying its legitimacy...

...The groups expect the Government of Israel to respond to the substance of the report's findings and to desist from its current policy of casting doubt upon the credibility of anyone who does not adhere to the establishment's narrative.

They call for Israel to investigate itself. I've said that from the start and consistently. You accuse me of misrepresenting things, and pull this rabbit out of a hat, your "a-ha" moment, which you feel proves it....and it turns out it was the very first thing I posted!

Nice work, Einstein.

Which part of the section

Which part of the section that you DID NOT post do you not understand?

"Already it is clear that the findings of the report - written after gathering extensive information and testimonies from Israeli and Palestinian victims - will join a long series of reports indicating that Israel's actions during the fighting in Gaza, as well as the actions of Hamas, violated the laws of combat and human rights law."

Btselem, in large part concurs with Goldstone that Israel commited war crimes.

Bye.

They note it is an

They note it is an indication, and then call for Israel to investigate. They do not presume guilt as you try to have everyone believe.

And it still doesn't explain your nonsensical charges that I misrepresented anything, since I posted the same PR earlier.

I look forward to your next embarrassing "last post" on the subject, Einstein. lol

You can judge how wrong

You can judge how wrong people are when they have to contort themselves in huge posts (e.g. see above by little Dave).

Here is the bottom line:

Israel: We don't want to make peace with you because you are bringing up the fact we committed war crimes.

The question is why is the US still giving military aid to Israel AFTER it is known that Israel committed war crimes with US arms? This is in contravention of our Arms Export Control Act.

Weak Omaba...from WaPo

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/02/president-obama-has-reaffirmed-a-4-decade-old-secr/#

President Obama has reaffirmed a 4-decade-old secret understanding that has allowed Israel to keep a nuclear arsenal without opening it to international inspections, three officials familiar with the understanding said.

The officials, who spoke on the condition that they not be named because they were discussing private conversations, said Mr. Obama pledged to maintain the agreement when he first hosted Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the White House in May.

Under the understanding, the U.S. has not pressured Israel to disclose its nuclear weapons or to sign the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), which could require Israel to give up its estimated several hundred nuclear bombs.

Israel had been nervous that Mr. Obama would not continue the 1969 understanding because of his strong support for nonproliferation and priority on preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons. The U.S. and five other world powers made progress during talks with Iran in Geneva on Thursday as Iran agreed in principle to transfer some potential bomb fuel out of the country and to open a recently disclosed facility to international inspection.
Mr. Netanyahu let the news of the continued U.S.-Israeli accord slip last week in a remark that attracted little notice. He was asked by Israel's Channel 2 whether he was worried that Mr. Obama's speech at the U.N. General Assembly, calling for a world without nuclear weapons, would apply to Israel.

"It was utterly clear from the context of the speech that he was speaking about North Korea and Iran," the Israeli leader said. "But I want to remind you that in my first meeting with President Obama in Washington I received from him, and I asked to receive from him, an itemized list of the strategic understandings that have existed for many years between Israel and the United States on that issue. It was not for naught that I requested, and it was not for naught that I received [that document]."

The chief nuclear understanding was reached at a summit between President Nixon and Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir that began on Sept. 25, 1969. Avner Cohen, author of "Israel and the Bomb" and the leading authority outside the Israeli government on the history of Israel's nuclear program, said the accord amounts to "the United States passively accepting Israel's nuclear weapons status as long as Israel does not unveil publicly its capability or test a weapon."

There is no formal record of the agreement nor have Israeli nor American governments ever publicly acknowledged it. In 2007, however, the Nixon library declassified a July 19, 1969, memo from national security adviser Henry Kissinger that comes closest to articulating U.S. policy on the issue. That memo says, "While we might ideally like to halt actual Israeli possession, what we really want at a minimum may be just to keep Israeli possession from becoming an established international fact."

Mr. Cohen has said the resulting policy was the equivalent of "don't ask, don't tell."

The Netanyahu government sought to reaffirm the understanding in part out of concern that Iran would seek Israeli disclosures of its nuclear program in negotiations with the United States and other world powers. Iran has frequently accused the U.S. of having a double standard by not objecting to Israel's arsenal.

Mr. Cohen said the reaffirmation and the fact that Mr. Netanyahu sought and received a written record of the deal suggest that "it appears not only that there was no joint understanding of what had been agreed in September 1969 but it is also apparent that even the notes of the two leaders may no longer exist. It means that Netanyahu wanted to have something in writing that implies that understanding. It also affirms the view that the United States is in fact a partner in Israel's policy of nuclear opacity."

Jonathan Peled, a spokesman for the Israeli Embassy in Washington, declined to comment, as did the White House National Security Council.
The secret understanding could undermine the Obama administration's goal of a world without nuclear weapons. In particular, it could impinge on U.S. efforts to bring into force the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty and the Fissile Material Cutoff Treaty, two agreements that U.S. administrations have argued should apply to Israel in the past. They would ban nuclear tests and the production of material for weapons.

A Senate staffer familiar with the May reaffirmation, who asked not to be named because of the sensitivity of the issue, said, "What this means is that the president gave commitments that politically he had no choice but to give regarding Israel's nuclear program. However, it calls into question virtually every part of the president's nonproliferation agenda.The president gave Israel an NPT treaty get out of jail free card."

Daryl Kimball, executive director of the Arms Control Association, said the step was less injurious to U.S. policy.

"I think it is par for the course that the two incoming leaders of the United States and Israel would want to clarify previous understandings between their governments on this issue," he said.

However Mr. Kimball added, "I would respectfully disagree with Mr. Netanyahu. President Obama's speech and U.N. Security Council Resolution 1887 apply to all countries irrespective of secret understandings between the U.S. and Israel. A world without nuclear weapons is consistent with Israel's stated goal of achieving a Middle East free of weapons of mass destruction. Obama's message is that the same nonproliferation and disarmament responsibilities should apply to all states and not just a few."

Israeli nuclear doctrine is known as "the long corridor." Under it, Israel would begin to consider nuclear disarmament only after all countries officially at war with it signed peace treaties and all neighboring countries relinquished not only nuclear programs but also chemical and biological arsenals. Israel sees nuclear weapons as an existential guarantee in a hostile environment.

David Albright, president of the Institute for Science and International Security, said he hoped the Obama administration did not concede too much to Israel.
"One hopes that the price for such concessions is Israeli agreement to the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty and the Fissile Material Cutoff Treaty and an acceptance of the long-term goal of a Middle East weapons-of-mass-destruction-free zone," he said. "Otherwise, the Obama administration paid too much, given its focus on a world free of nuclear weapons."

Knock off the posting full articles

And it was the WaTi

use the scroll down

use the scroll down key.

knock off editorializing other people's posts and post something original yourself instead of wasting everyone's time.

desperate Israelis

hahahahahaha!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/01/israel-threatens-palestin_n_306748.html

I Like Walt's Emphasis on Israeli Investigations

Israel should investigate so that it enhances its functionality as an effective and confidently legal military. It should determine if there were lapses in policy, implementation of policy at senior officer level, proper definition of rules of engagement on the ground, proper training of personnel in what are legally acceptable from unacceptable practices and in what specific circumstances.

By doing so, it will be a more confident and credible military.

It will also likely further distinguish itself from Hamas, which is extremely unlikely to conduct a similar review.

It will also further highlight the odd and opportunistic differences in standards of international accountability of a state versus a party versus an extra-legal militia.

That conflict in status (state vs party vs militia) is a LARGE objective component of the argument to continue the blockade of Gaza. Hamas' chameleon approach diminishes its assertions that it is a responsible political entity, that can legally supercede the PA or Palestinian constitutional law in development.

Review is the right path, the legal path for Israel to take.

Israelis have threatened to cancel mobile phone network in WB

I am trying to provide sources for this, but one of Denmarks leading newspapers, Berlingske Tidende has been reporting, that the Israelis have threatened to cancel a badly needed extension of the Mobile phone network on the Westbank, if the Palestinians does not cancel all efforts to bring the case about Israeli Human Rights abuses any further. And given that the PA is notoriously corrupt, it is entirely possible that a deal could be worked out between the parties along these lines. The same newspaper article reports, how Israel frantically has tried to deter US and Europe to bring the matter up in the UNSC, but that Turkey, which currently is a member , will.
»Whoever are responsible, they shall be identified and will have to face the necessary sanctions« the prime minister of Turkey, Tayyip Erdogan, said

This is why I usually paste

This is why I usually paste in whole articles. see my post above:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/01/israel-threatens-palestin_n_306748.html

Sir_mixxalot

If you are going to used a website, may I suggest one that doesn't hate Israel. The Huffington Post is well known for its pro Palestinian and anti-Israeli positions.

Which Huffington Post?

Huffington Post hates Zioland? Please provide some examples.

I'd like open people's eyes

I'd like open people's eyes so more of them will hate Israel. Hardly makes sense for me to preach to the choir.

Thanks anyway.

Luv ya!

btw: I'm Jewish.

But I hate Israel.

Go figure.

How can Jews be "colonialists" in their ancestral land??

So Israel is perpetrating the worlds "only" violent "colonial settler occupation"

I guess China in Tibet and Russian in Chechnya don't count because well, no one quite hates the Chinese and the Russians like they do the Jews...

But more to the point, Israel is the ancestral homeland of the Jewish People.

Jews lived, worked and prayed in the kingdoms of ancient Israel and Judea over 1,800 years for the birth of Mohammad.

Indeed, the earliest reference outside the Hebrew Bible to Israel is from the funerary stela of the Egyptian Pharoah Merneptah from 1209 B.C.

Just because our Temple was destroyed and our ancestors were violently kicked out by the Roman Army under Titus and Vespasian, condemning us to a 2,000 year exile filled with persecution does not mean we forfitted our national rights to our land.

Nor does it mean they are less then the admitted rights of the Arabs who came with the Muslim Conquest centuries later.

Oh, yes and in terms of Goldstone...Is anyone going to file a report on U.S. "war crimes" in Iraq or Afghanistan? Or on any other country? No just Israel.

Hamas sent over 10,000 rockets into poor border Israeli towns, hitting schools, playgrounds and homes and Israel is expected to do nothing.

This is after Israel fully withdrew.

I guess we Jews are simply not allowed to defend ourselves...

Well, sorry we value our lives and our children too.

Yes. Israel's is the worlds only violenty enforced, colony.

Yes. Israel is running the worlds only violently enforced colonial settler movement. And no, neither Chechnya nor Tibet are even remotely similar, in that there is not a government run plan to bring in foreign settlers, who will first ethnically cleanse areas, settle them, and then successively claim that the ares that they occupy have magically become part of their mother country. Israel is doing that, China and Russia are not. If you would like to compare Israels behavior to China and Russia's, Then the best you could say is that ideologically and from a human rights standpoint, Israel is following in China and Russia's footsteps, but that they are perpetrating a MUCH worse and set of human rights violations, in fact violations that are so egregious that virtually the entire world is unified on their condemnation of them. Most of the world recognizes green line Israel, while NOT A SINGLE NATION ON EARTH recognizes the settlements in East Jerusalem of the West bank. This should clearly show that the condemnation of Israels settlements has nothing to do with racism or bigotry, and everything to do with the fact that the entire world has agreed, through the Geneva convention, that such actions are not EVER acceptable. That is why the US state department has deemed them to be illegal.

The US is the ancestral home to the Native Americans, who were virtually wiped out both in population and culture and stripped of their rights to the nation that they occupied for MUCH LONGER and continuously than the Israelites ever occupied Israel, and they held almost all of this land until about 4 or 500 years ago, when their systematic ethnic cleansing and mass extermination began.

regardless of the horrific circumstances that led to the violent colonization of the US, It would not be right for the Native Americans to enjoin other nations in ethnically cleansing the US and violently taking it back, and they, based upon your utterly flawed and ethnocentric logic, have a great deal MORE claim to this land than Israel does to their ancestral home.

Green line Israel was started as legitimately as just about any other nation on earth, with the usual amount of bloodshed, suffering, treachery and loss. However, it was deemed acceptable by many nations, and was approved by them. That's the way any nation can gain legitimacy. The settlements, however, are CLEARLY and uniformly internationally condemned, and Israel has no rights to them whatsoever, under any circumstances. The can only run humanely and reasonably by following some sort of rule of law, and not vague assertions based on religious history dating back thousands of years.

Regarding the "10,000 rockets", since 2000, 14 Isreaelis died as the result of those rockets. Even before the war, many HUNDREDS of palestinians dies as the result of the raids and the 14,600 devastatingly accurate mortars that Israel shot into one of the most densely populated areas in the world.

In fact the longest truce in which no rockets were fired was broken by Israel as they continued to run assassination raids into the Gaza. That was BEFORE the 1400 (almost 1/3 children) that were killed in cast lead.

And that's the definition of disproportional response. That is why the UN came to their conclusions.

Finally, it simply cannot be asserted convincingly that Israel is simultaneously running the worlds only violently enforced settlements programs AND only defending Itself. If such a thing happened in the US, the people here would resist FOREVER, until they were all dead, or the settlements and occupation came to an end.

So, the solution lies in finally putting an end to the worlds only violently enforced colonial settler movement, which is morally indefensible, and which only serves to cause unnecessary and avoidable terror against both Israel and the US. The settlements,a nd the occupation that they solely necessitate, must go the way of south African apartheid and US slavery. Once that happens, the Us and Israel have a shot at greater peace and stability in the middle east.

A muh more comprehensive article about cast lead and the current situation can be found at;

www.huffingtonpost.com/sharmine-narwani/netanyahus-shame-and-the_b_305808.html

it's not the "UNHCR"

The UNHCR is the UN refugee agency. What you're referring to is the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, or the OHCHR.

Also, the UN Human Rights Commission does not exist anymore. It was replaced by the Human Rights Council a few years ago.

What's amazing and I suppose

What's amazing and I suppose poetic in a way is how the U.S., having gotten involved in a conflict in which it has no real national interest, keeps getting burned over and over and over again with what seems the endless parade of sub-issues involved in that conflict.

But for the fact that it involves the U.S.'s credibility too, it would after all merely be amusing to see how fast Obama has toasted his own after his Cairo speech by caving to Netanyahu on the settlements and now deep-sixing the Goldstone Report and agreeing not to see the nuclear elephant in Israel's living room. But no, once again one can just imagine the emotion engendered towards the U.S. in the arab-moslem world that Obama grandiloquently promised a fresh start with.

Interesting how quickly and frequently and definitively it is that once you get away from fundamentals like restraining yourself to attending to only those things in which you have a real interest, life starts making you pay for same.

What Goldstone really said...

...was that ending violence against innocent civilians in the Middle East rests upon holding the culprits accountable.

He seemed to conclude we can't abide impunity residing alongside the rule of law.

If Pres. Barack Obama or anyone else holds that impunity is a necessary element of their Middle East Policy, then they should admit they are not opposed to violence against innocent civilians.

Thank you, Justice Goldstone, for a clear analysis of what's wrong in the Middle East: we're wasting our time ignoring the crime.

Motivation for Peace

As a Palestinian American I believe it is necessary to push forward with the Goldstone report. It is necessary that the world understand what happened in Gaza. Israel must learn that their actions have consequences. The killing of 1400 lives is a disproportionate response to rockets and today's standards of human rights and morality will not tolerate it.

Peace is important but when Israel is allowed to murder 1400 people without consequence they have no motivation to compromise on a lasting peace