Wow, Tom is really getting skewered. I can not say I understand the Muslim mind, or your for that matter. But I know this; If my daughter were killed for what I perceive as ideological reasons I would be unforgiving. This seems to be universal. So why can't we understand that when we kill their daughters they feel the same way? Regardless of our intentions. Dead is dead and no amount of good intentions or apologies resurrect those gone.

If we were dropping dollars (literally) not bombs the outcome would be different. The Sunni Awakening movement is our only success in Iraq and it all based upon money. As we withdraw and our localized money distribution goes with it we will see the return of the "good old days".

Give a zealot a game-boy, or a job and watch the suicide vests hit the floor.

How about asking how many Infidels have the Muslims killed, raped, and beheaded ?

100 Million Hindus.
Another 60 Million Africans. Arab Muslims would corral them before selling them to Whites.

How many Armenians ? How many Jews ? How many Slavs in Yugoslavia during WWII with muslims Albanians working with the SS.

I could go on and on. Stephen M Walt is another academic on the Saudi payroll. Saudis besides the donations to Harvard do business in 100 of millions and billions with them. So this is a small thank you from a TRAITOR.
He deserve the same punishment what his Saudi friends give in their country to traitors.

The Muslims have beed attacking our Western Values since
some crazy Mohamed was able to talk hate. So now with our
superior technology at hand,we must apply it with full force.

We can hurt them so bad that Muaslims will think they are living in the period of Mohamed if our guys are allowed free rein. We can win in 18 months no problema.

1. Total destruction of Afghanistan s/b the policy.
2. All Afghaniis are the enemy - man,woman,child
3. Buldoze the entire village into a heap
4. Let survivors move to othr villages abd keep expanfing the circle.
5. Carpet bomb when the numbers are sufficiently large to justify.
6. Use napalm.
7. Destroy power facilities, food supplies including livestock, dock facilities,.......

You got the idea! We will win. Most in those hills will die of starvation.

The US was NOT founded on Christian principles, it was created precisely because Europe was Christian. After the US was created and it flourished as it was secular, so Europe became secular.

The US Constitution never once mentions a deity, because the Founding Fathers wanted to keep their new country "religion-neutral." The Founding Fathers were an eclectic collection of Atheists, Deists, Christians, Freemasons and Agnostics.

George Washington, and John Adams (Second President of the USA) CLEARLY stated in the 1796 Treaty of Tripoli: "The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian Religion.”

G.W. rarely attended church and instead followed a popular 18th century philosophy called Deism—a Star Wars-esque philosophy that believed in a cosmic energy or big-ass universal "Force." The dictionary says that Deism is "a system of thought advocating natural religion based on human reason rather than revelation," that had nothing to do with Christian principles.

James Madison, mastermind of the Constitution, was an Atheist to the core who loved skewering Christianity. In 1785 he wrote, "What have been [Christianity’s] fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.”

Thomas Jefferson, who sat down and authored The Declaration of Independence, rarely missed an opportunity to laugh at Christianity. In a letter to John Adams in 1823, he wrote: "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus…will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."

In 1814, Tommy J. wrote about the Bible's Old and New Testaments, "The whole history of these books is so defective and doubtful -- evidence that parts have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds.”

In fact, it was President Jefferson himself who first wrote (to a Baptist church group in 1802), "The First Amendment has erected a wall of separation between Church and State." Therefore, when Jefferson talked about “Nature’s God,” the “Creator” and “divine Providence ” in the Declaration that he wrote, he was being a hippie and referring to a general cosmic energy-- not the Christian God.

America is not a Christian nation.The Constitution derived from the post-Christian Enlightenment values of reason and truth

----

Liars For Jesus: The Religious Right's Alternate Version of American History
by Chris Rodda (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1419644386/ref=nosim/liarsforjesus-20

http://www.liarsforjesus.com/
Chris Rodda, who rightfully deserves to be called a hero for writing Liars For Jesus: The Religious Right's Alternate Version Of American History, and for her ongoing 15 part series at Talk To Action debunking falsified American history from the Christian right.

"UN" sanctions on Iraq - "at least 100,000 excess deaths." Even presuming this to be a reliable figure, it is incorrect and unfair to put this on the tally of the USA.

Afghanistan: "12-32,000 civilians" Are opposing combatants included in this figure? Why not break out the military/militia figures as was done with some of the other figures?

Iraqi Freedom: "~16,000 during invasion." Civilians or combatants? It makes a difference, why not break them out as you did elsewhere? "At least 100,000 excess deaths." Suspect figures which, even if accurate, cannot all be attributed to the USA. E.g., no attempt has been made to back out sectarian culpability.

Justification by score keeping serves no one's long term interest. The loss of life is tragic, regardless of with whom the victim may be affiliated.

Yes that's the way to hearts and minds as described by the Bush/Cheney/Rummy doctrine. Push them into a heap and set them on fire. That will teach em once and for all. And they will love us for it. What idiocy.

We create zealots where they did not exist, and convince the fence sitters. We are our own enemies.

The US Army is looking for good men, why don't you firebrands espousing destruction join up. Get out a little bit. Spread your holiday cheer.

Reading over these posts it's pretty apparent why Muslims feel threatened by the Westerners. Just in these few posts, I've seen people advocate for the genocide of Muslims and use their extremely shoddy knowledge of Islam to justify it. Don't forget, most the folks here, seem to use Islam, Muslim, and terrorism synomously. Maybe that's why they hate us, because idiots like you can't tell a civlian Muslim from terrorist. If the KKK was running amok, killing innocent White Southern Christians wouldn't probably cause the KKK to lose support, now wouldn't it? You wanna know why they hate you (and thus can do something about the attacks) just read these posts.

And for those of you who argue that there are more Muslim terrorists than other groups--let's put it this way. What's the difference between right-wing Muslims wanting to kill innocent civilians and right-wing Christians in this country who vote and lobby to kill innocent civilians there--especially when they use Islam and Terrorism interchangably.

Honestly, if we went to a country to help curb violence. It doesnt make sense to kill people. Sending the military on a humanitarian mission is like hiring Dr. Kevorkian as fertility specialist. That being said, i was in the U.S. Marines from 1993 to 2001. And we didnt shoot anyone that didnt shoot at us first. So i will have to disagree with this whole article. I know first hand the rule in the military is do not shoot anyone or anything unless it poses a threat to you. Any muslims that were killed, were most likely killed because they asked for it. Sure there are innocent civilians killed, but why would a group of people who care so much for life and religion hide amongst civilians? I will tell you, because they are cowards. Let me tell you this also. We captured about 12 guys hiding one time. Our translator asked them why they were hiding, they said because they were scared of the military. They were known terrorists hiding in a place known for housing terrorists. They begged for thier lives. So if they want to live so bad then why do they fire at us? Like i said We never fired unless fires upon. And of course its going to be 30 to 1 casualties, we are U.S. marines, the most effective killing machine ever known to mankind. So if you are going to pick a fight stand up and die for your beleif or step aside.

First, of all, I applaud your service to our country. But, 1993 to 2001 was a different scenario than now--for one, you weren't in wars of occupation. You didn't have things like Abu Ghraib, the secret CIA prisons, Blackwater Mercs massacaring people in town squares, 14 year old girls being raped and set on fire by American GIs, and carpet bombing raids. Don't forget there's more to the military than just the Marines.

Also, while suicide bombings are sick and revolting, it takes more guts and machismo to do that, then sit in your little aircraft carrier and press a button to wipe out a village.

I guess Genl. Westmoreland isn't the only person who thinks foreign life cheap.

You conveniently ommited the pertinent fact that most of the civillian deaths in both the Iraq War and Afghanistan were Muslims killing Muslims.

FACT: Even since 911, Muslims have slaughtered their own people in numbers far exceeding any deaths caused by the US despite the portrayal in the media.

FACT: The US military suffers losses in life and equipment while attempting to AVOID civillians Muslim deaths.

FACT: Al Queda and the Taliban DELIBERATELY seek civillian deaths for headlines and recuiting purposes.

FACT: The US puts it's military between the enemy and civillains.

FACT: The terrorists put civilins between themselves and the enemy.

You didn't mention that the 19 hijackers died in the 9/11 attacks.

Also, I am almost positive that there were some Muslims who died in the World Trade center. Who death toll do they count in for your BS body count?

Also, what about Pakistan? Is the US somehow responsible for Benazir Bhuoto's assasination? Did the US cause the beheading of local tribesman who allow young girls to go to school or permitted their men to shave?

Why are you attempting to make these bastards out to be victims? I am sure Mr Bin Laden smiled when he read your article.

The author conveniently avoids answering the obvious question:

QUESTION; During the same period of time, how many of the world's population have radical Muslims (islamofascists) killed????

How convenient for author of the article to overlook this important statistical fact?

How politically socialist and radical Muslim friendly this guy must be!!

QUESTION; How many more of the people of this world must perish at the hands of radical Muslims before their appetite for blood in the appeasement of their religious beliefs is satisfied??? What will it take? They choose to live only by the sword.

They are therefor self-condemned to die by the sword. It is by their own hand that they condemm themselves to whatever onslaught the world leverages against them.

What alternative do we have if we don't want to convert to the Muslim faith?? Kill or be killed seems to be the only terms they understand and will accept. They don't leave us with any other choice.

If we are not given a choice in the matter, then it should be too bad for them.

Where is it written that we should obligingly perish for their own warped war-religious self righteous satisfaction?

Foreign Policy -

Where is your outrage at the killings of Muslims in Bosnia and neighboring countries?

Your article about Muslim deaths inflicted by the USA would be much more credible if the author balanced the loss of life due to these conflicts with the facts. The article clearly distorts the facts.

Distortion is indicative of an agenda. The article's agenda is self-evident.

The nuance that is missing in this article is of course something that cannot be quantified: how many people - Muslim, American, or otherwise - would have died if the U.S. had NOT taken any of these actions? What would the world have looked like if Saddam had not been opposed in Kuwait? What if he had invaded other countries and, perhaps seeing that he was unopposed by the west, actually developed a nuclear weapon? Nobody would argue that the U.S.'s entrance into WWII didn't cause a significant number of deaths, but neither would anybody argue that it was the wrong thing to do, or that the world would be a better place if the U.S. had sat out WWII.

This isn't meant to be a blanket defense of U.S. policy toward Muslims in general and the middle east in particular. Clearly we have made serious missteps. But it is simplistic to just add up the numbers and conclude (as many commentors clearly do and the author at least seems to do) that America is bad, period, end of story.

Those comments on deaths of Muslims (and by Muslims) are right on target.

Walt cannot claim simple layperson's ignorance about the middle east; so what's his excuse? Saddam Hussein was singlehandedly responsible for the death of a million Muslims during his regime, if you include both his attacks on Iraqi citizens and the many Iranian Muslims who died during his protacted war against Iran.

I wasn't even in favor of either US invasion of Iraq, but the fact remains that the last one took a mass murderer out of power and away from the capacity to kill hundreds of thousands more Muslims.

Professor Walt owes his greatest apology not to Americans, who can endure a few criticisms, but to the Muslim people of Iraq whose welfare he is willing to smirk at in order to make his own little point and his own name.

I wouldn't accept this reasoning from a sophomore (well OK, maybe from a sophomore). It's a sad day when such so-called thinking makes you not only a Harvard professor but a named chair there.

As a Muslim, as a woman, as an Iranian who use to chant "Death to America", I matured and realize our grave mistake. When we failed to take responsiblity for our own problem and blame U.S. I have the priviliege to say we Muslims need to take responsiblity.

Iran nation and it people now are on phase 2 and have matured so much that in their last mass demonstration they would say "Death to nobody"! They now know their problem are their problems only and not US In fact they are begging US to send them just a verbal suport as they fight with their lives for democracry..
U.S committed horrible atrocoties in Japan and Korea. Bascially left them as dust! Yet these countries who hardly had any resources (such as oil, minerals, Gas) some how manged to make their countries into one the most dynamci industralized nation and we never hear them whine and whine about US. Iran and Arab countries had all the money in the world and they squander and keep acting like victims.

Enough!. The genoicide in Sudan, Kosovo and all the killings and repression of woman in many Muslim countries, is hardly discussed amongst Muslims, in fact right now muslims are being repressed in China. Not once the Islamic Republic of Iran criticize that. China is considered their ally and friend. Such hypocrites. Our money from our country is being given to Hezbollah and Hamas and our people are screaming. No Gaza, No Lebanon my life is for Iran. 25% inflation and our people are starving. We have no press, no election, complete Stanlinism terror.Please bring evil U.S Empire back anyday!
I, as a woman would perfer everyday being under U.S evilness compared to Hamas, Hezbollah or Islamic Republic of Iran.
For all of you who live in U.S and criticize how evil your country is. I invite you to visit Iran and try to criticize our govt. Our jails you can languish with pleasure as you get raped with broken glass bottles anally and then black aslphat is poured on your wounds from the lashes you had taken. This is what our young and old are facing.

Acutually go volunteer for Taliban,jihadist who are bent on nihilism.
Enough not once all these people who hate U.S policy ever criticize the brutal repression of Muslim men over their woman.
You know if you want to make Absurd arguments about atrocoties in WW1 or WW11 why don't we just go all the way to Greek times or Roman times and then again blame all of it on U.S. Please all countries have committed evil and some more than other. But right now Muslims need to grow up and learn to criticize themselves. I would love there to be some mass Liberal Muslims criticizing their religon and their people instead of U.S Now that is something very healthy that we need as people. I just read an editorial in Arab paper quoted in BBC news saying as I am appalled by what Swiss have done with new law of banning minaret. I am terrifed more and way more disgusted when Muslims bomb masses of their own people inside those mosques. All is relative.
Since Islamic Republic took over Iran. We have complete censorship, mass murders, repression of woman and no this is no puppets regime that U.S supports. This is the excuse used by all the people who one want to blame U.S is that we support corrupt regimes of these countries. Well look at Iran when the U.S support Shah and the mass murders, torture, killing and rape that was done after Khomeni came to power pales to what the Shah did. Both were bad but one is so much much more worse. One killed in thousands the other has killed yes in hundred thousands. They killed the communists, the Mujhadeen, the Shah, the Bahai, the Sunni and I mean days were they put to death hundred of thousands of people. This is Stalanism at it best in the last 30 years.

I know U.S has blood on their hands but really they are nothing as bad as when Islamic miltants take over. iPlease stop this! I know how Shamelessly Israel grabs land and then whines that the poor poor Jews need a safe land!. But really I think I rather be under Israel regime as a Muslim woman rather than Hamas and Hezbollah or Islamic Republic of Iran. Trust me on this one. If only Palestine would have some like Ghandi and Mandela.
Learn from Iran we are cutting Edge it is so passe to blame U.S and Israel.

There are many reasons why the Muslim world (defined as those in Muslim majority countries and ignoring minorities in developed countries) hates or is dissatisfied with the West and the reasons vary partly by country, city and so forth. There have been numerous studies performed and research done on the subject. Some of the factors include but are not limited to secularism (Godlessness), poor education, strong focus on conspiracy theories, Muslim unity over 'outsiders', lack of a free press, socio-political agitators, Islamists (of several varieties) and so forth. A more intelligent article would have been to look at the research performed and perform a quality meta-analysis as to what factors rank the highest and which the lowest. Without analyzing quality data (of which there is plenty) articles like this are simply opinion.

One other point, if we simply look at anti-Muslim incidents and events that are obviously propaganda versus those that are real, the ratio is drastically skewed toward those that are obviously propaganda. As the Muslim world has little education, no free press and little interest in science (these centuries), their data is based mostly on fiction. Therefore, focusing on real numbers is meaningless. The typical Muslim in the countries referred to above does not have access to real data and is simply fed a diet of distrust, exaggeration, distortion and so forth.

I'm always particularly disturbed by comparisons of the Crusades to today's efforts. Somehow, Islamist intentions are always shrouded in something that happened 1000 years ago, making war and murder against the West "holy." Of course, Islamists might want to open up the history book to a little earlier page and see what kind of culture they swept away by their aggressive expansion in the Near East, North Africa, Spain, France and to the gates of Vienna. Our fear, paranoia, and distaste for the Muslim is, in fact, rooted in Western history's viewpoint. Imagine how far better off the world would have been had the Arab wars of conquest not taken place. The entire Mediterranean rim would be a zone of peace and prosperity rather than a world divided into haves and have not's. The Islamists, (and Muslims in general,) ought to be asking themselves how they fell from the pinnacle of world culture to the nadir. The answer lies in a deep corruption of the spirit, and a failure to democratize. And this is the path they want to impose on the entire world? Hitlers in different headgear, I say. Imagine the trillions of petrodollars stolen, sequestered, and squandered since the 1930s. A stringent self-examination is in order for them. Blaming the West as the bogeyman of history should stop if they want to grow in the present.

Read a book, ANY BOOK, for the love of God. Muslims don't hate Americans because they are Christians and are commanded to (You'd be hard-pressed to find a verse in the Quran that calls on Muslims to unprovokedly attack non-Muslims, in contrast to the Old Testament). They are hostile to America by and large due to American foriegn policy blunders. Some of you argue that Muslims have killed other Muslims, and that is true, but many of those trangressor Muslims were on the payroll of the US.

Fact: CIA financed much of Saddam coup d'etat.

Fact: Reagan supported Saddam with intelligence about Iran and Kurd villages.

Fact: Reagan gave Saddam the chemical weapons he used against the Iranians and Kurds.

Fact: US armed Shiite militants without oversight in the second Gulf War which in turn killed Sunnis

Fact: Reagan sold Iran weapons during the Iran-Contra affair

Many Muslims that killed innocent Muslims where essentially US-armed and financed agents. If you set a house on fire and the fire kills people, who's responsible, the fire or you?

If you want to stop terrorism, we've got to stop using the Muslim world as a whack-a-mole game. America needs to reach out to the vast majority of Moderate Muslims who do recognize that the terrorists are just as much of a threat to themselves as they are to Americans, instead of treating the lot of them as terrorists and replacing one psychotic despot with another despot while we jack their oil.

The point is we usually are reacting to something done to us when we go into the Muslim world. Should we suffer an equal number of casualties to make everyone happy? In modern times I don't see many other groups wreaking havoc on the world because God told them to do it. To the Muslims I say, stop killing people and we will stop killing you. Also it isn't much of a belief system If anyone criticizing it has to be fatwaed or jihaded whatever that means. You might want to be a little thicker skinned. I don't see why we should giving legitamicy to such medieval beliefs. If they want to live in the 15th century then they should expect to be treated accordingly.

Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq:

We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright:

I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it.

--60 Minutes (5/12/96)

I have taped this interview for my children to watch and to keep for their children too.

As an Arab, I grew up loving America and even its government and political system but I have, since desert storm, changed my mind forever.

Even Kuwait, Iraq's victim, ended up criticizing the sanctions but Albright would have none of it. This couldn't be right.

Mr. Walt, who I'd like to thank for his courage to uncover the reality for war-monger Friedman, may have forgotten to mention that 30 years ago, Arabs were in love with the US. I was always told that "America is not like Europe, they don't seek to colonize" but this is not what I am going to tell my children.

The US government, with its unchecked impunity, has killed way too many Arabs (and Muslims) for no good reason (mostly for oil and neo-colonist policies).

The death toll is way more than what Mr. Walt wrote.

See, Mightyforces is an example why we can't deal with Muslims in a positive manner. Islam is probably the most multi-ethnic religion in the world and he seems to think that you can address Muslims as the homogenous group of Brown-skinned Arabs and treat them all the same.

Newsflash, Mighty, most Muslims aren't killing Americans.

Newsflash, most Muslim countries aren't Islamic states.

Newsflash, most Muslims hostility isn't cause "God tells them to kill people" its cause we play with their dictators and kill their people. Newsflash, there are other people who are killing in the name of God. For example, most Christian American support of the Israeli occupation and genocide is because the Old Testament said so, and the Christian Coalition regularly advocates and lobbies Congress official to go war in the Middle East in order to help bring about the prophecies of Revelations.

Contrary to what Friedman thinks, our real problem isn't a fictitious Muslim "narrative" about America's role in the region; it is mostly the actual things we have been doing in recent years.

This sounds more like a war on Mr Friedman.
Or an attempt at sparking a fight which brings readership. Of course you can't have one without the other. The narrative was sparked by our mistakes. But to deny its existence seems almost childish.

You've got to be kidding me. This is actual analysis?
The notion that the best way to establish moral high ground is by totting up victims? What, are you in the third grade?

Afghanistan somehow "wins" 9/11 and the U.S. loses, because more Afghans have died since that Americans were killed in the Twin Towers. You must be a lunatic. Did you even notice that the Afghans died AFTER 9/11, therefore the "hate" generated in the Muslim world by the US invasion of Afghanistan couldn't have been the same hate that motivated Osama to plan the attacks?

It might seem trite, perhaps because it strikes closer to the truth, but I would have to agree with the vast majority of writers and analysts who look at things like the appalling lack of education, modernity, human rights, and economic prosperity in much of the Muslim world as the source of much of their bitterness and "hate". The idea that because we killed more of them than they killed of us, therefore they hate us is, simply, crazy. Does that mean the Muslims will start to like us again if we let them kill more of us, to even the score?

Your relentless, unecessary insults of Tom Friedman (fatuous, smug self-assurance, patronizing) certainly set up what follows in your article to be, well, fatuous and smug. Criticize Friedman, please, but can't you do so with a modicum of courtesy and professional honesty?

Can't you write better?

This piece stinks.

I'm neither Muslim, nor American. I just want to say that I follow 'the news' on the internet daily, and have been becoming more and more despondent about the strident drivel that poses as 'informed comment'. I do not have the means, nor do, I suspect, too many others, to verify the 'facts' various writers present. However, your measured and balanced presentation of the 'facts' as you have determined them to be, have left me less despondent about humanity and America. I thank you for that.

Do you know what is most despicable about U.S. foreign policy? "the fact … that the United States has killed a very large number of [German] individuals over … three decades"!

Around 1917-1918, American government officials (soldiers) murdered thousands, if not tens of thousands of Germans, for (almost) no reason whatsoever.

And then, because the Americans — those clueless retards — are moronic as well as blindly patriotic, 20-30 years later, they still had not learned the lessons of tolerance and understanding, and they again, for no reason whatsoever I tell you, started assassinating Germans again, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands!

No wonder why the Germans and their leaders in the 1910s and in the 1940s hated us… (Now, if only we could have tried a little more understanding…)

Ok, so far we have occupation and killing.

I think part three should be the propping up of ruthless dictators, enriching other corrupt leaders, and simultaneously being complicit in the toppling of democratically elected heads of state.

Either that or complicity in Israeli humiliation of Arabs.

Maybe it'll be a wildcard?

Keepum' comin'

La Casa where in my argument have I said U.S has legitmiacy over Iran? I am sayiny as a nation who thought all the ills of the world was U.S fault, we were pioneers-- and made it Vogue to hate U.S by shouting out Death to U.S. and our rah, rah U.S is bad was the loudest-- the unevolved stage-- the stage you are at.
We as a nation now matured and sasw atrocities, the tortures and the mass killlings and censorship and fraudlent election with no U.S help. Oh my what a suprise other human being and governments are just as bad as U.S. The worst is Iran is doing that to their own people. We just are sick of pointing our fingers at U.S that is all.
We shout death to Nobody and say No Gaza, No Lebanon my life is for Iran.

Sir, morning. You forgot the 19 Islamic fanatics that hijacked the aircraft used in the attacks on 9/11.

Additionally, your analysis should perhaps explore the basis of conversion from whatever religion of others to that of the dominant major religions in the world, especially the more coersive/violent aspects and suggest that religious leaders & members urge this activity stop.