Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 1:06 PM

John Judis at The New Republic has taken issue with a post of mine from last week, in which I suggested that former Prime Minister Tony Blair's testimony to Britain's Iraq War investigation was consistent with the interpretation that John Mearsheimer and I advanced in our book on the Israel lobby. To his credit, Judis is mostly interested in evidence and he doesn't stoop to the same level of character assassination that some of our critics do. He does accuse me of not having read the Blair transcript, which is not true; at the same time, it appears he has not read our book or my post very carefully.
First, I made it clear in my post that Blair's comments were not a "smoking gun" that proved we were right, and I neither suggested nor implied that Blair's testimony demonstrated that Bush went to war at Israel's urging or to accommodate the Israel lobby. I merely noted that Blair had said that concerns about Israel were part of the discussion, and that Israeli officials were consulted as part of the conversation. Indeed, after summarizing Blair's testimony, I wrote:
Notice that Blair is not saying that Israel dreamed up the idea of attacking Iraq or that Bush was bent on war solely to benefit Israel or even to appease the Israel lobby here at home. But Blair is acknowledging that concerns about Israel were part of the equation, and that the Israeli government was being actively consulted in the planning for the war."
In short, Judis is attacking me for claims I did not make. He suggests that perhaps the Bush administration was just informing Israel of its plans, which is certainly possible, but we have other evidence-including several Israeli accounts-suggesting that Israeli intelligence was also providing Washington with information that reinforced the case for war. (See here, pp. 235-36).
Second, given that a number of critics had taken issue with our analysis of the Iraq war, the bulk of my post recounted the evidence that a) prominent "pro-Israel" groups and individuals backed the decision to go to war and used their influence to sell the war on Capitol Hill and to the public at large, and b) Israeli officials aided this effort, even though some were initially skeptical about going after Iraq because they wanted the United States focus on Iran instead. Judis does not challenge the evidence I presented; he merely asserts that support from AIPAC and other "pro-Israel" groups had hardly any influence on the decision to invade Iraq.
As I wrote in my post, "reasonable people can disagree about how important their influence was, of course, but at a minimum, the activities of these groups and individuals reinforced the Bush administration's resolve and made it less likely that other politicians or commentators would conduct a serious debate about the wisdom of the invasion." Judis ignores this caveat, and apparently believes that the extensive efforts to sell the war by advocates inside and outside the Bush administration were completely irrelevant to the final decision.
But consider the following counter-factual. What if Bush and Cheney had independently dreamed up the idea of invading Iraq after 9/11, but the plan was openly questioned by Israel, AIPAC, the Conference of Presidents, and the ADL, on the grounds that it might lead to a quagmire and maybe even strengthen Iran? What if these groups had openly opposed the war, or just quietly pushed for an genuine debate on different options, or simply remained on the sidelines and let members of Congress know that they had their doubts? What if their counsels of restraint had been reinforced by similarly prudent advice from respected think-tanks like the Saban Center at Brookings, the American Enterprise Institute or the Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP)? What if staunchly pro-Israel pundits like Charles Krauthammer, Max Boot, Kenneth Pollack, Jeffrey Goldberg, and Thomas Friedman, among others, had spent 2002 raising questions about the wisdom of an attack, or arguing as passionately against the war as they did in favor of it? It's possible that Bush & Co. still might have been able to stampede the country to war, but surely it would have been much harder.
In reality, of course, all of these groups and individuals were part of the pro-war chorus, yet Judis seems to think their advocacy was just whistling in the wind. Again, reasonable people can disagree about just how important the lobby's activities were; what is beyond dispute is which direction they were pushing.
Third, the real differences between Judis and us is how one defines the "lobby" and how one interprets the role of the neoconservatives. He concedes that the neoconservatives were the primary architects of the war, and he presumably understands that the war would not have occurred absent their influence. But like some of our other critics, Judis wants to define the "lobby" narrowly. Specifically, he wants to confine it to formal organizations like AIPAC that engage in actual "lobbying" activities and exclude the neoconservatives completely. He also wants to exclude academics and commentators who have strong attachments to Israel and who consistently defend the U.S.-Israel "special relationship." Employing this narrow definition enables Judis to argue that the "lobby" had little to do with the war.
Unfortunately, that definition also ignores the obvious fact that most special interest groups have variety of different components, and that these different components work to shape public policy in a number of distinct ways. Interest groups in America do not simply "lobby" politicians directly; they also try to shape public discourse, seek to get sympathetic individuals appointed to key positions in the executive branch (while trying to bar those with whom they disagree), and seek to discredit or marginalize opposing views in the public domian. Anyone familiar with the scholarly research on interest groups knows that this is how the American system of government works, and not just when it comes to Middle East policy.
For this reason, we employ a broader definition, which is more consistent with common sense and with the scholarly literature on interest groups. We defined the "Israel lobby" as a "loose coalition" of individuals and groups that actively works to promote and defend the "special relationship" between the United States and Israel (i.e., the policy of generous and unconditional U.S. support). Having a favorable view of Israel or generally pro-Israel attitude doesn't make someone part of the Israel lobby; to qualify, a person or group has to devote a significant portion of time, effort or money to promoting that "special relationship."
Just as the environmental movement or the "arms control community" is not confined to a single group, the "pro-Israel" interest group in the United States is not limited just to formal organizations that spend their time lobbying on Capitol Hill. It also includes think tanks like WINEP, watchdog groups like CAMERA and the ADL, and more dovish organizations like J Street and Americans for Peace Now. It also includes Christian Zionist organization like Christians United For Israel, but not organizations such as Jewish Voice for Peace, because the latter does not endorse the "special relationship" (i.e., it does not favor uncritical or unconditional U.S. support). We use the phrase "Israel lobby" as a convenient shorthand term for this loose coalition, just as one might refer to the "farm lobby," "gun lobby" or other ethnic lobbies, many of whom have a number of different components as well.
As we made clear in our book, the various individuals or groups that make up the lobby do not agree on every issue. For example, some support a two-state solution while others favor a "greater Israel," but all agree on the importance of preserving the special relationship. And the lobby includes unaffiliated individuals who "actively work" (to varying degrees) to maintain that special relationship, and who use their influence to push the United States to pursue policies that they think will benefit Israel. Just as it would not make sense to exclude a journalist like Nicholas Kristof from the "Save Darfur" movement, or to omit Al Gore from the "loose coalition" that favors vigorous action to halt climate change, one should not exclude any individuals or groups who "actively work" to promote the special relationship between the United States and Israel, even if they have no formal connection to organizations that literally lobby in Washington like AIPAC or J Street.
By this commonsense definition, the neoconservatives are clearly part of the lobby (or if you prefer, the "pro-Israel community"), whether or not they belong to groups like AIPAC, the ADL, the Zionist Organization of America, Christians United for Israel, or whatever. Both the scholarly and popular literature on neoconservatism makes it clear that a strong commitment to Israel is a central part of the movement's world-view, and prominent neoconservatives like Norman Podhoretz, William Kristol, James Woolsey, and Max Boot have said so explicitly. Does Judis really believe that these individuals and others like Paul Wolfowitz, Elliott Abrams, Douglas Feith, "Scooter" Libby, Robert Kagan, or Charles Krauthammer, are not part of the "loose coalition" that actively works to promote the special relationship? Has he been paying attention to the policies they have promoted over the past two decades? As we show at length in our book, the whole idea of invading Iraq originated with them, and prominent neoconservatives like Wolfowitz, Feith, and Libby played central roles in pushing this policy within the Bush administration.
If the neoconservatives are rightly regarded as a part of the lobby -- and they should be -- and if they conceived the idea of invading Iraq and played the central role in persuading key politicians and the public at large to support it -- and they did -- then our interpretation of the Iraq War's origins is correct. Having examined the evidence, we concluded that the lobby played a major role in driving the decision for war. We emphasized that the lobby wasn't solely responsible -- a point I reiterated in my post and Judis fails to mention -- but its influence was a key cause. Remove the neoconservatives from the picture, silence groups like AIPAC and the Presidents Conference as well as pro-war pundits like Kenneth Pollack, and it's hard to imagine the United States invading Iraq. Remember, the uniformed military was not pushing for war, and nor was the State Department or the intelligence community. Nor were Halliburton or the oil companies the driving force behind the war, despite what some of our left-wing critics seem to think.
To be sure, the Iraq war probably would not have happened without 9/11 (another point we made in the book), but let us not forget that invading Iraq was a strange response to that tragedy. After all, bin Laden was either in Afghanistan or Pakistan, not Iraq, there was no credible evidence linking Saddam to al Qaeda, and the invasion of Iraq was a massive diversion of resources away from the real war on terror. Yet neoconservatives like Wolfowitz were calling for an attack on Iraq within days of 9/11, even though Iraq had nothing to do with the events of that fateful day and even though the perpetrators of that attack were hundreds of miles from Iraq.
Bush and Cheney were obviously key players in the decision -- another point I emphasized in my post -- but they didn't dream up the idea of invading Iraq by themselves. As Robert Kagan noted after the war began, but before it went south, the neoconservatives had a ready-made solution to the post-9/11 situation, one that they had been pushing since the mid-1990s. The events of 9/11 provided an ideal opportunity for the neoconservatives to sell their idea about invading Iraq, and once it began to take hold in Washington, the other organizations in the lobby and Israel itself then lent their influence to the campaign for war.
One final caveat: our definition does not imply that anyone who backed the Iraq war is ipso facto part of the "Israel lobby." There are plenty of people who eventually supported the war because they were convinced Saddam Hussein was evil, that he had or was seeking WMD, or that he might threaten U.S. interests elsewhere in the region. Plenty of these people have no special attachment to Israel and do not "actively work" to promote the U.S.-Israeli relationship; indeed, some of them have even been openly critical of some of Israel's actions. These individuals are obviously not part of the "Israel lobby," and we never said nor implied that the only people who eventually favored war were members of the Israel lobby. The neoconservatives in the lobby conceived the war and played the most important roles in selling it to Bush and Cheney, but they didn't do it all by themselves.
Nonetheless, the bottom line is that the United States would not be in Iraq today were it not for the influence of the Israel lobby-a loose coalition of groups and individuals that includes the neoconservatives-and no amount of dust-kicking can obscure that fact. To make matters worse, the neoconservatives and the most influential "pro-Israel" groups do not appear to have learned much from the debacle in Iraq. Almost all of the pro-Israel groups and individuals who pushed for war against Iraq are now in the vanguard of the campaign for taking military action against Iran, and for essentially the same reasons that they favored invading Iraq. If the United States does strike Iran and the war goes badly, one can be sure that these same groups and individuals will once again work overtime to deny any responsibility. I wonder what Judis will say then.
Alex Wong/Getty Images
Is John Judis Part of the "Lobby" or Not Professor Walt?
Whatever else he may be, Walt is guilty of sloppy thinking. It's hardly the sign of a great intellect to think that you can say anything, no matter how unsubstantiated by the facts, and think you can get away with it.
Oh well, I guess that's what tenure is for.
Amongst the enormous number of academics, pundits, interest groups and periodicals that he thinks make up the -Pro-Israel" lobby; Walt specifically mentions a few "staunchly pro-Israel" journalists by name. One of those is Tom Friedman of the New York Times.
But exactly how "staunchly pro-Israel" is the author of "From Beirut to Jerusalem?" If Professor Walt has evidence that any of Friedman's columns or books champion a special relationship between Israel and the United States than Walt should produce that evidence. Exactly what makes Walt think that Friedman supports a relationship between Israel and the United States that is any more "special" than the relationship between the United States and Saudi Arabia or the United States and Jordan or the United States and Great Britain?
A less deluded commentator than Walt would be quick to realize that Friedman has made a career out of excoriating Israel and has published countless columns denigrating Israeli policy. Nevertheless, Walt places Tom Friedman front and center in the vanguard of the notorious "Israel Lobby."
Including Friedman is revealing because it demonstrates beyond any doubt what Walt thinks is required to be a card carrying member of "the lobby." Walt obviously believes that any Jew who doesn't hate Israel belongs to what he considers to be the nefarious cabal. Come to think of it, he obviously believes that any Christian who doesn't hate Israel is a member of the same heinous cabal. So it's not just Friedman who belongs to "the lobby," its Michael Gerson and Eugene Robinson too.
Referring to himself and his co-writer, Walt says,
"We use the phrase "Israel lobby" as a convenient shorthand term for this loose coalition, just as one might refer to the "farm lobby," "gun lobby" or other ethnic lobbies, many of whom have a number of different components as well."
But Walt is blowing smoke. For the farm lobby to be as all-inclusive as he thinks the "Israel Lobby" is, the farm lobby would have to include anyone who thinks milk is good for little children or likes to eat an occasional hamburger. Walt's definition of who might be part of the pharmaceutical lobby would be anyone who takes high blood pressure medication. He must think that the "gun lobby" consists of anyone who has ever owned a gun. It doesn't matter if you support reasonable gun control, if you've ever owned a gun; don't worry, in Walt's eyes, you're in!
Anyone who has read the platform of the Democratic and Republican Parties knows how those platforms define the political parties’ views about Israel; I guess the political parties themselves are part of "the lobby."
And of course, President Obama himself signed off on the Democratic Platform last August shortly before he was nominated. I guess signing off on a pro-Israel platform plank makes President Obama himself a card carrying member of "the Lobby."
Walt's definition of what constitutes a lobby is so incoherent and so overly broad that in the case of the "Israel Lobby" you practically would have to be an anti-Semitic nut case" not to be a member. If you have even a modest degree of sympathy for the Jewish State according to Walt, you're part of the conspiracy too.
After all, if Tom Friedman can be part of the "lobby" anyone can.
No wonder Walt is so embittered. The way he's defined the world, it's practically everyone against him.
Academic nuances are a waste of time
I agree with you 100%. If you leave out all the tedious academic nuances Walt so carefully makes, then the staunch anti-semite he really is reveals himself furiously. That's why you gotta love straightforward easy unthoughtful assessments about Walt's perspective on the Israel lobby issue, they're a real time saver!
Chronologically-challenged Professor Walt
Dr Martin Kramer totally devastates Dr Walt's piece:
"When people who don’t know much about the Middle East, like Stephen Walt, pose as experts, they make basic mistakes of chronology. So let me remind him of exactly what coincided with the Crawford meeting of April 6-7, 2002."
http://www.martinkramer.org/sandbox/2010/02/chronologically-challenged-professor-walt/
I think Walt's a little crazy being so defensive about this. One little article by one guy and he's off with another detailed recapitulation of the already overly-lawyered, overly hedged, overly caveated, hyper-sculpted thesis about same that he and Mearsheimer presented in their first article, and which (seemingly impossibly) they then further refined in their book.
Just as with the crowd now plumping for war with Iran, with Iraq there were clearly a whole lot of Israeli partisans who were doing all they could not just to airly state their beliefs about the wisdom of invading but obviously to make it easier for Bush to do so via supporting same, including—as if that wasn't enough— ferociously attacking those who were against such an invasion.
Of *course* if the consequences of same had turned out to be good—cake-walk good, cheap oil good, democracy flowering good, and etc.—they'd be taking credit for it left and right. Does anyone really doubt that? Except, given that those consequences have turned out to be malignant, of *course* they're now denying any responsibility for it.
I have to say that this serves Mr. Bush only right to see all those who were saying he'd be another Churchill if he did now impliedly saying that no, the moron did it all on his own. But nobody's really fooled because what this argument really is and what Walt's wasting ink over isn't that all-important: Which precise neurons were firing in Bush's brain when he said "go" isn't the only freaking question out there. There's an entire *constellation* of equally important questions such as what *gave* him the idea in the first place? What *led* him to believe it was smart? What led him to believe it had enough support to go forward with? What made it doable in terms of public opinion? What made it doable in terms of Congress? And on and on.
Everyone knows this I think, and thus even responding to the ridiculous and utterly misdirecting question about what precise neurons were firing in Bush's brain when he did say "go" is a huge mistake. You over-gild any lily and the pretty soon nobody will even remember that the lily ever existed.
Well written and honest. Thanks.
Jack Straw's Iraq Inquiry testimony
Back to the Iraq War Inquiry and Jack Straw's testimony. To quote "No sooner had that statement come out demanding the early withdrawal of the Israeli forces from the West Bank than a major political operation was launched in Washington the following week to reverse the nature of the call.
Colin Powell had been sent to the region and when he came back, he was strongly of the view that he had been consistently undermined by his enemies while he was away, in the administration, in the US Congress and by someone who is now the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, coming to Washington and effectively working agaist him. Unquote
Colin Powell was not a zionist/neo-con wanting a head-long rush into war. He also believed that the Palestinians deserved consideration. That Benjamin Netanyahu lands in Washington to effectively work against US Secretary of State Powell is direct proof that Israel was involved in heating up the war rhetoric, never mind displaying the Israeli Lobby in full sail.
Walt:
"First, I made it clear in my post that Blair's comments were not a "smoking gun" that proved we were right, and I neither suggested nor implied that Blair's testimony demonstrated that Bush went to war at Israel's urging or to accommodate the Israel lobby...
Second...the bulk of my post recounted the evidence that..."
My comment:
For one, Walt ignores the most cogent criticism of what he wrote.
Judis says this:
"Walt says that Blair’s statement to the commission “reveals that concerns about Israel were part of the equation [that is, the decision to go to war] and that Israel officials were involved in those discussions.”"
This is, in part, what Judis addresses. It is indeed the argument Walt made, and there is no evidence whatsoever that it is true. The questionable contention that Walt makes here is that this discussion revolved around the decision to go to war, but he has absolutely nothing but his own feelings and an overly defensive need to be right to go on.
For two, was this anything other than a transparent way for Walt to reiterate his views, grasping at anything that mentioned the war and Israel in the same breath to do so while adding nothing new to his old theories.
For three, has anyone else noticed that this blog has become tediously self-congratulatory and self-referential?
The part you fail miserably to address is the fact the Blair quote had nothing to do with Iraq at all, but with the Intifada. The fact you failed to read the whole interview just shows how careless your research is.
But the Blair quote was the news hook to write the blog post. It wasn't his argument. I'm willing to overlook some "told-you-so" gloating over Iraq. Those who rightly opposed the Iraq War should get props for that call. Currently, the people who pushed the war have not lost one iota of respect over their war mongering.
So you score a small point, but deal with the rest now. Rightly saying Walt made a mistake on the Blair quote doesn't invalidate any other arguments from the post.
The question is - are you willing to overlook the intellectual dishonesty?
In Walt's initial post, he explicitly says that the Blair quote has to do with the Iraq war. In reality, there is no way to know this, and without a doubt Walt is a careful enough reader to realize this. (Conversely, I also think there is no way to know that it had to do with Operation Defensive Shield, which was going on at the same time, as Judis asserted).
In Walt's response, he pretends that the on target criticism (which you acknowledge as on target, Norwegian Shooter) didn't happen, while at the same time accusing Judis of putting words in Walt's mouth. More intellectual dishonesty. As a matter of fact, Walt wants it both ways - to say that this vindicates him, but then offering the disclaimer above. Of course, when one does this (and it is not uncommon for Walt to do this, I can point out some examples if you care) there is always something to point to, to say that your critics are misrepresenting your arguments. This is yet more intellectual dishonesty.
A person without access to the full transcript of the remarks (and, truth be told, without a fimiliarity with Walt's writing) would simply assume that Walt, a sitting chair at Harvard, would be reporting honestly about the Blair testimony. Likewise about what Judis wrote in his response. Walt's work is filled with these types of misrepresentations, and the cherry picking of evidence, and this criticism has been leveled by Walt's ideological allies as well as his opponents. This type of bias is very pernicious, because if one is not intimitely familiar with a subject, one can not know what is being left out. The same is true for the remainder of his initial post. We only see the "for" case, at times almost certainly ripped out of context, in op-ed style. Appropriate if the main goal is to change people's minds, but not so great if the goal is to actually tease out what is going on.
Finally, why does Walt need a "hook" to wax eloquent, once again, on his views of his Lobby? And if he really does need a hook, for some reason, aren't there plenty that he could have used without the disengenuity?
I gave you Walt's first point is incorrect
Now address points two and three.
Walt has made the same points before. He is simply reiterating his position. Nothing I could say would add anything to the discussion (this is actually true of most of the comments on this blog, including my own).
While you concede the obvious point, you don't actually address the multilple cases of intellectual dishonesty which Walt evidences, or comment on the chances that this same type of bias is present in his essay or larger body of work (which you, surprisingly, call "honest").
As I said, Walt's is a very pernicious form of bias, making it a lengthy and difficult task to address comprehensively. And really, who other than you would even read it after all is said and done. If you are having difficulty finding the critiques already published of this very same work, I will Google them for you. I can even cut and paste here if you prefer.
You may call this lazy, I call it efficient :-). Let me know.
One point we completely disagree on
is "nothing I could say would add anything to the discussion." You could argue against Walt's points, rather than a simple blanket condemnation of everything Walt has written.
"making it a lengthy and difficult task to address comprehensively" I don't agree with this either. There are two points in this blog entry that wouldn't take a Herculean effort to dispute. You might call it efficient to avoid any effort at rebuttal, but I call it cowardly.
Please do link to others' critique of this post, I would like to read them.
NS, you misunderstand me. I was referring to the critiques of Walt's idea that the invasion wouldn't have happened if "the Lobby" didn't exist, not to this specific blog post. Have you really never read any of that? And have you never read any critiques of Walt's definition of his "Lobby", which is another idea this post spends a lot of time on? There is a lot of that out there.
You may disagree, but the reality is that there is nothing I could write that hasn't been written before. I can change the words around a bit, that's all. The bulk of Walt's two posts, other than the disengenuous "hook" and selectively presenting only parts of Judis' argument, do the same thing.
One thing you didn't address was the multiple instances of disengenuity from Walt. Can you reconcile that with calling the post "honest"?
Honest wasn't the right word at the time either, but I completely retract it now. I should have went with frank or candid.
BTW, the only way to refute Walt is to address his current points, one by one. If you don't care to, fine, but dismissing his entire body of work in a phrase parallels the undefined, broad-brush characterization of the Israel lobby that you accuse Walt of.
You say I am dismissing the points in a broad brushstroke, but I don't agree. What I am doing is indirectly referencing critiques that have already been written. Those will have to be judged on their own merits.
What I see Walt doing here is expending a lot of words to say, essentially, "I am right".
For instance, quickly, the second point...
I don't see any evidence, just reference to evidence. He also makes a "counterfactual" that is not consistent with his main assertion (which involved "the Lobby's" support or lack thereof, and didn't involve any hypothetical *opposition* to the invasion), and uses it to simply present his opinion one more time as his conclusion. I also see that Walt makes a caveat that is at odds with his conclusion.
"As I wrote in my post, "reasonable people can disagree about how important their influence was, of course, but at a minimum, the activities of these groups and individuals reinforced the Bush administration's resolve and made it less likely that other politicians or commentators would conduct a serious debate about the wisdom of the invasion." Judis ignores this caveat, and apparently believes that the extensive efforts to sell the war by advocates inside and outside the Bush administration were completely irrelevant to the final decision. "
I agree with this, which Walt wrote in his first post. It is reasonable. And in a hypothetical world where "the Lobby" didn't exist at all, it is almost certain that others would have played this same role, largely for the same reasons that "the Lobby" did. But asserting that "the Lobby" had any influence at all is much different than arguing that the invasion wouldn't have happened without them. This is essentially moving the goalposts.
It is also worth noting that Judis' assertion is the diametric opposite of Walt's. Judis isn't saying that "the Lobby" had no influence whatsoever. He is saying that the invasion would have happened regardless, and so, as it pertains to the final decision ultimately what they said or did meant nothing. Walt, of course, is saying that the Lobby's influence meant everything, because the invasion wouldn't have happened without it.
That is point 2 boiled down to its essence. Walt says he believes one thing, Judis says "I believe the opposite".
Finally, addressing a different idea, Judis alludes to the question - if a named member of "the Lobby" is not acting in the capacity of their Lobby membership, should they still be counted as "the Lobby". I'm not sure what to think about that or how one would tease it out. Walt's definition -- "We defined the "Israel lobby" as a "loose coalition" of individuals and groups that actively works to promote and defend the "special relationship" between the United States and Israel (i.e., the policy of generous and unconditional U.S. support)" -- leaves a logical gap between that and the motivation for pursuing the Iraq war. IMO he should broaden that definition to include those who are motivated by concerns for Israel's security, but it's not my theory or definition, and we have to rely on how Walt defines his own construct. By that definition, it's not even clear that a majority of "the Lobby" did support the invasion since a lot of Jewish groups that Walt considers part of "the Lobby" opposed the invasion, as did a majority of US Jews, whom I am guessing make up a majority of "the Lobby" as defined, Christian Zionists notwithstanding. If "the Lobby" supported the Iraq war in the same proportion as the American public, can one really point to them and say they were critical? Can we point to "Christians" as responsible for everything that the US public supports in a majority, since Christians make up the very large majority of the population? Can we do this even if their stances have nothing to do with their Christianity?
I am mostly thinking out loud with the (disjointed) last paragraph, and there might be important distinctions that I am missing.
Great post (The Israel lobby and the Iraq War)
Totally on target and thoroughly sensible. Remove the neocons (the Likud wing of the Israel lobby) from the equation, and there would have been no Iraq War. They were not only a key factor, they were the *predominant* factor by far in pushing relentlessly for the war. The op-ed pages of the Washington Post, New York Times and Wall Street Journal tell the tale.
Now that the war is probably going to be treated by historians as the worst foreign policy disaster in American history, the neocons are frantically trying to wriggle away from their responsibility in agitating for it. But they have left an immense documentary trail behind them, much of which is instantly retrievable with Google. They can't run from their words and the consequences of those words.
The Israel lobby and the Iraq War
A good place to start to pull together the hard numbers regarding responsibility for the Iraq War:
sort interest groups by number of pro-Iraq War op-ed articles in the Washington Post
where the interest groups in play include among others:
1. the Israel lobby (including neoconservative, neoliberal and Christian Zionist pro-Israel activists and militants)
2. the oil lobby
3. the arms lobby
I read all those op-ed articles while they were being published, and know for a certainty that pro-Israel activists associated with the Israel lobby easily rank at the top of the list, far ahead of every other lobby and interest group.
We now see the same process underway with regard to lobbying to escalate tensions and conflict between America and Iran: neoconservative and neoliberal pro-Israel activists and militants are spearheading the propaganda campaign -- pretty much the same cast of characters who engineered the Iraq War.
Perhaps after Professor Walt tells us whether he thinks that John Judis is a member of the "Israel Lobby," he can enlighten us about whether he agrees with Lady Jennifer Tonge of the British House of Lords that Israeli physicians volunteering in Haiti were really there to harvest organs destined to be transplanted into Jews.
After all, no one can accuse her of being a crank; she was appointed as a "health critic" in the House of Lords by the Liberal Democratic Party. That's almost as impressive as having an endowed professorship at Harvard.
To be precise, Lady Tonge didn't actually accuse the Israeli doctors of stealing Haitian organs. After a Hamas activitst in Gaza did, she called for a full investigation.
And wouldn't you know it, like Professor Walt she thinks that Jews in Great Britain are just too powerful; this is what Lady Tonge had to say in 2006,
"The pro-Israeli lobby has got its grips on the Western world, its financial grips. I think they've probably got a grip on our party."
So 'fess up professor. Do you agree with Lady Tonge? Do you think Israeli doctors serving in Haiti might have been there to steal organs?
Inquiring minds want to know.
"Nonetheless, the bottom line is that the United States would not be in Iraq today were it not for the influence of the Israel lobby-a loose coalition of groups and individuals that includes the neoconservatives-and no amount of dust-kicking can obscure that fact."
This is absolute silliness. There was a large coalition of groups and politicians in favor of the war against Saddam's regime in 2003. In fact, according to an ABC/WaPo poll at the time 72% of the US public supported removing Saddam from power by force. Given this we can conclude that many groups, often overlapping groups, supported the war. Perhaps among those groups were pro-Israel individuals. After all, just as most Americans supported the war, few exptessed sympathy for Palestinians. At the time, in 2003, according to Gallup polling, less than 20% of Americans expressed sympathy for Palestinians in their conflict with Israel, while nearly 60% expressed sympathy for Israel. Ultimately, given that pro-Israel individuals represented a broad swathe of the American public and a broad swathe of the American public supported the war, it would follow that some of the individuals in favor of the war were pro-Israel.
Walt long rejoinder does not negate substance of Judis charges
Mr. Walt completely fails to address the substance John B. Judis's refutation of Walt's INTERPRETATION of Blair's statements. Mr. Walt saying he read the transcript in it's entirety is hardly the point, and in fact only serves to further discredit him.
J. Judis central point is that when T. Blair commented that Israel was the big issue at the meeting he had with Bush, he was referring to the violence of the 2nd Intifada and the Israeli reaction more specifically the Israeli assault on Jenin.
Judis argues that the communications between the US, Britain and Israel were not consultations on Iraq but were demands on the part of Britain and the US to Israel to halt the offensive.
Given the dates this is a much more logical interpretation of Blair's comments.
The record has now shown that Israel under then Likud government of Ariel Sharon was opposed to the war and made their reservations clear in private meetings. Israel made clear that an attack on a Iraq could be potentially very destabilizing and that Israel considered Iran a much greater threat and cause of concern.
It is of course sloppy scholarship to use innuendo to draw a conclusion. Mr. Walt tries to imply that a number of Jews advocating for war is proof of Israel's complicity. Mr. Walt fails to explain how Israel, which was privately opposed to the war, was somehow responsible for unleashing it's 'agents'.
The fact is AIPAC never took a strong stand on the war or advocated for it. If they had nothing could be more revealing than the fact that the majority of Jewish members of Congress opposed the war resolution. So much for the invincible Israel (Jewish) Lobby, who could not even bring Jewish legislators in line.
Christopher Wilken: The Israel lobby and the Iraq War
Which interest group in American politics was nearly as aggressive in promoting the Iraq War in the most influential media as pro-Israel activists and militants -- neoconservatives, neoliberals and Christian Zionists?
Some key ringleaders of the Iraq War:
1. AEI (American Enterprise Institute) 2. Charles Krauthammer 3. Commentary 4. CSP (Center for Security Policy) 5. David Frum 6. Daniel Pipes 7. David Wurmser 8. Douglas Feith 9. FDD (Foundation for the Defense of Democracies) 10. Hudson Institute 11. James Woolsey 12. JINSA (Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs) 13. John Bolton 14. Lewis Libby 15. Michael Ledeen 16. National Review 17. Norman Podhoretz 18. OSP (Office of Special Plans) 19. Paul Wolfowitz 20. PNAC (Project for the New American Century) 21. Richard Perle 22. RJC (Republican Jewish Coalition) 23. Robert Kagan 24. The New Republic 25. The Weekly Standard 26. William Kristol 27. WINEP (Washington Institute for Near East Policy)
Do any of those names ring a bell for you?
Three names are usually mentioned as the lead architects of the war: Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith and Richard Perle.
And now this very same lobby is frantically trying to erase its tracks and distort the historical record on its central role in engineering the Iraq War -- while at the same absurdly and conspicuously agitating to expand the Afpak War and to start a war with Iran.
Most Americans were susceptible to and passively followed the direction of the ringleaders of the war in the mainstream media, who worked relentlessly to exploit 9/11 and the 9/11 anthrax attacks -- they were not aggressive in agitating for the war.
On the methods of the Israel lobby
1. Many members of a lobby which is far more aggressive and conspicuous in American politics than any other lobby one can name often deny that the lobby exists. Weird to the max -- we are definitely in the realm of the irrational. The phenomenon begs for a psychological explanation.
2. Members of the lobby often try to distract attention from big picture issues by fastening on trivial details -- that is one of their favorite debating techniques. Yes, there is room for multiple interpretations of Tony Blair's quote, but there is little room for running away from the many *thousands* of statements in dozens of media outlets made by the neoconservatives, neoliberals and Christian Zionists who loudly and conspicuously agitated for the Iraq War at the top of their lungs.
3. When the evidence is completely against them on an issue, many members of the lobby simply clam up and refuse to utter a word on the topic. Case in point: the frenetic campaign to ratchet up conflict between the United States and Iran, which is being driven overwhelmingly by the Israeli government and the Israel lobby.
Foreign Policy just singled out Daniel Pipes, John Bolton, Norman Podhoretz, Joshua Muravchik, Thomas McInerney and Max Boot as the ringleaders of the campaign to attack Iran:
“Who Wants to Bomb Iran?” Meet the men calling on Barack Obama to launch airstrikes against the Islamic Republic.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/02/08/who_wants_to_bomb_iran?page=full
Still not a word on the subject from representatives of the lobby on Walt's blog -- they don't want to discuss the matter, even though an Iran War could easily turn out to be a worse foreign policy disaster than the Iraq War and lead to the economic collapse of the United States.
Thank god for Steven Walt's voice in this debate. He and Mearshimer are a absolutely critical to the breakthrough we have had on this topic - we are now able to debate this issue with less and less fear of retribution. This is why tenure is so key to intellectual freedom. He is a worthy successor to Edward Said.
It is beyond me why he doesn't have a regular op-ed column in the New York Times and people like Tom Friedman do.
Kinda funny all these posts denying there's a lobby or denying that it was at all responsible for Iraq or attempting to raise other distracting issues or etc.: Obama and his people being light years smarter than Bush you just know all this kind of thing does is pound into their heads that if they do indeed go after Iran the instant the shit from same hits the fan suddenly all those people and groups who were cheering the on are going to be trying to vanish in the same puffs of verbal smoke and gymnastics we see here so as to leave Obama and Obama alone holding the bag.
I like it: A helluva big reason Obama shouldn't go there that can never be repeated enough.
A rational train of thought, elaborated in an immaculate line of argumentation. Hats off!
No wonder that a lot of the somewhat critical comments seem to exhibit a strong emotional motivation, diviation tactics, or even personal slur.
Be the rock mr walt, let'em howl!
greetings
The Israel "lobby" in assassination mode
1. "Hit squad hunted for killing of key Hamas leader"
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/02/16/dubai.hamas.killing/
2. "Dubai Hamas assassination: how it was planned"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/dubai/7251960/Dubai-Hamas-assassination-how-it-was-planned.html
3. "Dubai murder: fake identities, disguised faces and a clinical assassination: CCTV appears to show sophisticated operation behind killing of Hamas official Mahmoud al-Mabhouh"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/16/dubai-murder-fake-identities-hamas
Wow. The operation was recorded in considerable detail on CCTV.
The Israeli government seems to be burning its bridges with much of the world. This is going to be a huge story. Israel's response so far? There is no "proof" that it was behind the assassination.
Sure this is getting huge - gonna explode up in Israels face
The cool-blooded. professional terrorists knew they were being caught on camera, but they probably didn't expect that a 27 minutes long video-film should be put together by the Dubai authorities - -complete with maps that show their movements from different European airports --, and distributed throughout the world - to an extend that you can now watch it here on my own website: [CLICK:]Israeli killers with European passports
Of course Sean, sophisticated operations.
If it were the US we would have just launched a Hellfire missle from a Predator and taken him out.
What was it that Ralph Kramdon used to say? Bang! Zoom!
Israel hasn't been shy about offing HAMAS leaders in the past. Sheik Yassin and Dr. Rantisi were just two that went by the wayside as part of their quest for martyrdom.
Reality is, Mahmoud al-Mabhouh is a high ranking terrorist and a gun runner for HAMAS. That puts him right up there with Somolian pirates and al-Queda types. Truly someone on the opposite pole of Mother Theresa.
Ethan Bronner
The New York Times
February 17, 2010
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/world/middleeast/18israel.html
The Israeli government, deeply worried about the country’s declining international image, began a campaign on Wednesday to turn every Israeli — and ultimately every Jew — into a traveling public relations agent.
...
The launch coincided with a growing controversy over the killing of a Hamas official in Dubai. Many Israelis have wondered if the assassination was the work of their Mossad spy agency, especially because a number of the false identities used by the killers were of Britons who had immigrated here.
“The campaign stems from a genuine fear that Israel is misrepresented, sometimes in very vicious ways,” observed Shlomo Avineri, who teaches political science at Hebrew University in Jerusalem. “On this level it is understandable. But I think it is puerile. Some of the information is ridiculous, and behind it I find a Bolshevik mentality — to make every citizen an unpaid civil servant for the policy of the government. There is never any intimation that some of our problems have to do with actual policies.”
Anat Weinstein-Berkovits, the Information Ministry’s spokeswoman, said the material would be translated into a number of languages so that Jews everywhere could use it in defense of Israel. In a later phase of the program, citizens would be trained in how to speak on foreign television and radio broadcasts about their lives and experiences.
Bronner wrote: "The Israeli government, deeply worried about the country’s declining international image, began a campaign on Wednesday to turn every Israeli — and ultimately every Jew — into a traveling public relations agent."
Right, many Israeli gov'ts and the Israeli Right in particular in innumerable ways are constantly implying or outright saying that what they do has the support of world jewry. In this campaign, for instance, gov't brochures put on planes obviously aimed at foreign jews traveling to and from Israel are asked "Are you fed up with the way *we* are portrayed around the world?" [Emphasis added.]
And yet, rightfully, non-Israeli jews will take offense if not see anti-semitism when, for instance, someone says "the jews were for the war in Iraq" when what is really meant instead is that *Israel* and a great splotch of its partisans were for the war in Iraq.
Again, they may be right to take offense, but as much as those who make that mistake are wrong so is the Israeli gov't and the Israeli Right in particular who encourage that view.
You can't justly have it both ways I don't think: Not object when Israel purports to speak for you, but then blast those who say it does as anti-semites.
To its credit and as I understand it disassociating itself and its members from everything Israel does is pretty much exactly the founding reason behind J-Street. But the fact still seems to be that J-Street cannot yet even begin to be said to have any broad or deep jewish-American support.
Just another example of the Israeli Right in particular rather ruthlessly using all jewry to provide cover for what it's doing, no matter how detrimental that is to those others.
Is this Bronner the same Bronner whose son is proudly serving the butchers in the Israel "Defense" Forces? And Papa Bronner is a member of the JIDF, the Jewish Internet Defense Forces? The family that plays together stays together, or the Israeli version, the family that kills together stays together?
"We’re proud to say we might all be Mossad."
"He looks like you ... Israelis pride in 'Mossad assassins' with fake hair"
Times Online
February 17, 2019
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7031050.ece
"We’re proud to say we might all be Mossad."
Jacob Blues: A "sophisticated operation"
Right: a "sophisticated operation" that has been broadcast all over the entire planet in detail.
Do you have any idea of the enormous political damage for Israel that this "sophisticated operation" will probably cause? And the degree to which security services all around the world have been placed on sharp alert for identifying "sophisticated operatives" who match the profile of this crew?
Israel, its Mossad and its supporters suffer from such a bloated case of hubris that they cannot ever, never grasp the consequences of their actions. This is probably also why Dubai fingered the Israelis so quickly. The Israelis still tend to see all Arabs as some kind of medeival, sub-human species that are unable to grasp modern technology. Hence, their beloved Mossad's Keystone Kops operation. A closer look at the Mossad's other operations will reveal that they have not been especially clever, just brutal. The same self-generated
" making the desert bloom" exceptionalist myth surrounds the Mossad.
Dubai assassination - police hunt six new suspects
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7030193.ece
Dubai has widened its search for the killers of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, it emerged today, with officials confirming that at least six of the Hamas commander’s assassins remain unaccounted for.
Police in Dubai have issued international arrest warrants for 11 suspects in the case, but now believe the team behind the murder numbered at least 17.
The six unknown killers include a second woman who was part of the final surveillance team in the lobby of al-Mabhouh’s Dubai hotel as the murder took place on the evening of January 19. The woman arrived at the hotel at 18.41 dressed as a tourist and wearing a large summer hat. She was accompanied by a large man in a Panama hat and beard.
Another unknown man was part of the core team of seven that carried out the killing in room 230 of the luxury Al Bustan Rotana hotel. Within minutes of the murder taking place, the man is seen leaving the hotel with a woman who was carrying a fake Irish passport in the name of Gail Folliard.
Sorry Mr. Walt, but I think you were totally wrong in your first post to say: "But Blair is acknowledging that concerns about Israel were part of the equation, and that the Israeli government was being actively consulted in the planning for the war." And trying to defend it here is also wrong.
Reading the transcript, it seems clear to me that the reference to Israel has to do with the broader Middle East peace issue, i.e. the Road Map. It does not, as you suggest, "that concerns about Israel were part of the equation," by which you mean the war planning. Judis is right - Israel is mentioned re Road Map, not Iraq War. You should re-read the transcript, think it over, and take it back.
It is obvious that John Judis did not read 'The Israel Lobby' or is quite delusional or most probably part of the lobby and protecting it.
The comments about Iran is spot-on. The same bunch of neo-con pro-Israel trouble makers are stirring the pot for an attack on Iran. Main stream media follows.
If one quarter of the American population actually knew the facts, our troubles would soon be over and we could have a decent foreign policy. Keep up the good work.
Best Regards
role of Congressional Caucuses
Will anyone knowledgeable tell me if they would consider the role of Congressional minority caucuses important in the influence on public policy such as the invasion of Iraq? In the other words did the Congressional and Senate Jewish caucus play any "final" role here like the Cuban caucus does on the continuation of the 50-year Embagro?
Stephen M. Walt is the Robert and Renée Belfer professor of international relations at Harvard University.
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