Posted By Stephen M. Walt Share

Thomas Wright has an interesting op-ed in the Financial Times today, laying out a new strategy for dealing with China. He argues that the Obama administration initially adopted much the same approach as the earlier Clinton administration, in effect seeking to integrate China as a "responsible stakeholder" in the existing set of made-in-America international institutions. That effort failed (as realists anticipated that it would), and Wright now recommends a new approach.  Money quotation (my emphasis):

[The United States] now needs a new strategy of preservation to ensure the current international order can withstand external pressures and function effectively, even if a major power, such as China, decides to undermine it. To do this, the US needs to build new geopolitical partnerships and alliances; Indonesia and India are good candidates. It must seek European support for core principles of openness, including freedom of the seas, space and cyberspace, to be upheld even if China and others encroach upon them. It should give more influence to nations willing to take on greater responsibilities in tackling shared problems -- including South Korea, and on certain issues Vietnam and Turkey -- and pressure those who do not."

This is, of course, a realist approach to the preservation of world order. It rests upon the formation of countervailing alliances, based on the recognition that effective international institutions inevitably reflect the underlying distribution of power. If the United States fails to maintain an imbalance of power in its favor (based on both its own capabilities and those of its allies), its ability to preserve the current institutional structure of world politics will gradually evaporate. I think Wright overstates Europe's importance when it comes to dealing with China, but his observations about India and Indonesia are on the money.

It also follows that the more money, men, and political capital the United States expends in places like Afghanistan, the fewer resources it will have available to deal with more serious long-term challenges. And as both Glenn Greenwald and Paul Krugman recently observed, the fewer resources we will be able to devote to maintaining the foundations of national power and our overall quality of life here at home.

FREDERIC J. BROWN/AFP/Getty Images)

 

HUGH

8:13 PM ET

August 9, 2010

I got a better idea...

But how do you stop this sort of policy escalating into a new cold war with China? I don't want to see the West wasting resources getting pulled into an unnecessary confrontation with the Chinese. Anyway, there's a better way to slow the rise of China: stop exporting American manufacturing jobs to China.

 

NICOLAS19

7:36 AM ET

August 10, 2010

I agree

This kind of "containment" policy leads to isolation. You can see for yourself how this worked with Iran... China has the will, power and resources for a more-or-less self-sufficient economy (in a few decades, with the extensive development of green energy), so isolation wouldn't bear much fruit other than a strengthened regime and growing hostility towards the West. No more cold war, please.
You made good point about the jobs. Steady withdrawal from China would be beneficial, as it would lower domestic unemployment and dependence on China at the same time.

 

MEGAKIDS

4:29 PM ET

August 17, 2010

Back to Fundamentals

"There is a better way to slow the rise of China."....WHY? Go back to basic, why do you want to slow China's rise? Is China's rise a threat or benefit to the US or the World?
American manufacturing jobs are not exported to China. They were drawn to the lowest cost denominators. Now, Bungladesh, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc. are eagar to take those jobs away from China. You need to get to the fundamentals....why US fails to up the ladder of making things like the Swiss and the German. That should the question.

 

SYVANEN

9:09 PM ET

August 9, 2010

SEATO reborn?

Wright's suggestion sounds like building a very specific anti-China alliance (and alliance with the US means by definition, military alliance). It is quite true that the US has an "imbalance of power in its favor" but I do not see why that is advantage for the American people. The power imbalance is extremely expensive -- what is the number of bases we must support overseas? somewhere in 600 to 700 range. Could someone please let us know what the rate of return to the US taxpayer is in the costs of building and maintaining a dozen aircraft carrier battle groups? This realism means that the US spends as much on its military as does the rest of the world. And the latest commission to address our deficit is pondering how to cut Medicare and Social Security. Is military spending on the table? No it isn't and the reason is the Washington consensus of realism insisting on this international power imbalance.

If this is what a realist foreign policy consists of then perhaps we should re-consider good old fashioned isolationism as a basis for a new foreign policy.

 

DAVE1995

1:59 AM ET

August 10, 2010

"Coalition of the willing" against China

What Wright is suggesting is to form a "coalition of the willing" against China -- nothing more or less. Such an approach implicitly assumes that international politics are isolated games, rather than repeated ones. Repeated employment of the "coalition of the willing" is a losing strategy. For instance, India was promoted earlier in the decade as the US 'strategic partner' for containing China and countering "Islamic extremists". Having tasted the 'strategic partnership' with the US, however, India is showing more interest in joining the Shanghai Corporation Organization and cooperating with Iran and Russia on Afghanistan.

 

SYVANEN

4:28 AM ET

August 10, 2010

Dave I think you mean

Dave I think you mean "Shanghai Cooperation Organisation" but you are right. Today it makes more sense for Indonesia and India to work with them rather than with an American led "alliance' in opposition to China. China's policy of non-intervention in the internal affairs of other nations certainly makes them a more agreeable partner than whatever the US has to offer.

 

DAVE1995

4:29 PM ET

August 10, 2010

Thank you.

Yes I did mean "Cooperation". My mistake!

 

MEGAKIDS

4:40 PM ET

August 17, 2010

Why should that be a surprise for India?

Which is India's closest and most influential neighbor? It's a no-brainer! Wright's thinking is not only old-school, it is out-dated and has lost its relevance in today's geopolitical landscape. China's rise is already a fact. The west should learn to adapt and work with this power. In case of doubt, read Sun Tze's Strategem of War. Sun Tze, by the way, is Chinese!

 

CLAUDE BATMANGHELIDJ

7:11 AM ET

August 10, 2010

The issue is not one of

The issue is not one of spending money on military outlays at all. India and China are emerging as the second and third superpowers, and it is a fact that Confucian values differ to those that we came up with in Europe and the United States. Confucian societies like China and Japan have very different values from those of the west. They are very stable societies, but they are also very stifled and stifling societies.

The previous balance of power was intrinsically unstable. It was like a seesaw, as at one time the US was preponderant and at others the Soviets were. The Soviets fell of the seesaw and the US came crashing to the ground. In a sense the Soviets kept us honest. Now we have nothing to keep us on the straight and narrow but an emerging China will be able to play this role.

China is much stronger than the Soviets ever were and in order to keep it in check we will need to make an alliance, as Walt says, with the Indian nexus of power. The same of course will hold for the Chinese and the Indians. To keep us in check, they will need to ally with one another too.

So, you would have a constantly shifting balance of power as follows:

If China becomes too strong, US and India ally with one another.
If the US becomes too strong, China and India join, and if India becomes too strong, the Chinese ally with the US.

This new tripartite world order is like a three legged stool and will in the end bring about stability to the world. Not a bad thing at all.

 

MEGAKIDS

4:41 PM ET

August 17, 2010

India is over-rated

You have a good point analyzing "balance", which oriental philosophy prized dearly (ying vs. yang, concept of harmony between heavenly forces and human etc.) But I feel that you have over-rated India in the contribution of a tripartite possibility. India is not ready in all aspects. At the moment US is desperately pulling all tricks - US+Japan+S. Korea; US+ASEAN. None of these combinations seem to work.

 

GRANT

8:19 AM ET

August 10, 2010

In this sense 'realist' seems

In this sense 'realist' seems to be another word for 'someone who doesn't think big enough'. We could of course move closer to India (indeed compared to the 80s we are much closer). And we can try to convince Pakistan that we're still an ally, probably without much success.
In business China is still worth more than India (even though China has a great number of restrictions on foreign business) something that is supposed to be important to realists.
Then there's the problem of stability, China is much more stable and certain to keep the status quo than India is given the amount of crime, insurgencies and tensions with Pakistan that India has.
After that is the question of how exactly we're going to get closer to India. Our major effort on behalf of India in nuclear power managed to seriously undercut nonproliferation and doesn't seem to have gotten us anything in return.
Going past India we have the problem of South/East Asia in general. Those nations know that the U.S will eventually decline while China will still be around in a century. They have to think carefully and decide if they want to pick a fight with China now.

In re. to Claude: that's really sounds like rehashed ideas that are constantly made by reporters who don't know the first thing about politics or reality. In order of your arguments.

1. Both Japan and China had periods of major political turmoil and revolutionary thought that Confucianism did nothing to halt. Indeed, I find it hard to credit that Confucianism can be held to be the only reason for Japan's conservative attitude when there are at least half a dozen other, more realistic possibilities.

2. The U.S has hardly come crashing down. The U.S economy is still the largest of all nation states, the U.S military is still considered the most powerful, U.S investment in higher education is much higher than most nations (and certainly much more than China). Compare the U.S today to the U.S in 1973 and tell me which era seemed worse.

3. China is in no shape or form stronger than the U.S.S.R was. If we ever did a GDP estimate I suspect that the Soviet Union had a larger one, the Soviet (and Russian) military held far more experience than the Chinese, the Soviet fleet was much more advanced than the Chinese is now (even though the Chinese had far more reason to need a fleet), and the Soviets could intervene directly in far off areas in Africa or South Asia, something China can barely do.

4. Assuming that the U.S, China and India will be the only three great powers is pure hyperbole. This ignores many strong states across the world such as Germany, Brazil, Russia, Japan, South Africa, France, the U.K etc. Yes, more than a few of those nations really need to get their act together but to think the world will be balanced on three legs is at best premature.

 

CLAUDE BATMANGHELIDJ

3:59 PM ET

August 10, 2010

Reply to Grant

Hi Grant,

Thanks for taking the time to address my comments!

What about the Edo period? That was almost three hundred years without major upheaval. It was a peace enforced by coercion and the domination of the samurai, but peace nonetheless. Compare Europe and the United States in the same period. Endless wars in Europe, and the US has been on the warpath off and on during its entire existence. The period since 1945 is basically non-stop war.

China has a contiguous history dating back 3000 years, and is the most stable civilization in history. There is simply no comparison with Europe or the US.

China has had its revolutions, but the revolutions and rebellions of the 20th century were nationalist movements ultimately aimed at throwing off colonialism and establishing China once again as the middle kingdom.

Japan is generally stable and its foreign adventures are the exception to the norm. The so called revolutions and civil wars in Japan have been merely realignments of the status quo among a closed circle of power holders. A real revolution in Japan would be most welcome, same for China. They both need one.

Sorry, but the US has come crashing down. It's a holy mess. The country is hopelessly overextended and the treasury is completely empty, looted to the last drop. You talk about an education system. The population is practically illiterate politically, in its understanding of geography or history and world affairs. The education system has been gutted. It was a deliberate effort to gut it as well. Much like the offshoring of jobs, it has resulted in a hollowed out economy, capable of little else but producing wars. Well, this is not entirely true. The US is still hugely powerful, and it is on the cutting edge of just about every development, but it is in real trouble. The center is weakened. It has a lot of inertia to overcome before it can really be said to be back on its feet again.

The Cold War and Vietnam played a large part in destroying the once unsinkable US economy. The leadership finished it off when they refused to make use of the Cold War peace dividend. It's a horrible disaster.

The US today is incalculably worse off than it was in 1973. No question.

I have no idea where you are going with your comparison of the Soviets and China. It's not an issue of military power, in any case. China doesn't need military power, but it should be able to field a serviceable capacity for projection before long. Why not?

If you look at China's long history, it does not have a record of aggressive military projection. While the Europeans made their way around the world slaughtering the native peoples they met, the Chinese had earlier sent a massive naval fleet all the way to Arabia, on a mission of peace, the only goal of which was to expand trade and gain respect for the Middle Kingdom.

I don't know the figures, but I hardly remember the USSR being the workshop of the entire world as China is today. Again, no real comparison. The soviets could make SSBNs and tanks, but that was about it. The rest of the products were not fit for the market. Different cultures entirely.

Japan is not capable of being a political or economic superpower any more. The real role for Japan is one of a leader, in the sense of using its superior knowhow to lead other countries to a higher level of stability and productivity. It has ceded the role it could be playing, by playing its cards too close to its chest, to the Chinese. Japan utterly lacks leadership. Again, if there is a real revolution in Japan this could all change, and Japan could turn into a real world leader, but not an economic or military superpower. Those days are just over, gone. Japan's golden age has come and gone.

Germany, Brazil, South Africa, France, the UK...are you kidding?

 

GRANT

2:45 PM ET

August 11, 2010

In re. to your responses in

In re. to your responses in order (and thank you for being civil, considering some of the comments I've had thrown at me...and sorry if I was being sharp)

1. The Edo period was indeed a peaceful, but immediately prior was the Japanese Warring states period. At both times Confucianism was present but had little to do with stability. I give far more credit to the Tokugawa military victories and to a growing sentiment among the nobility that it was better to enjoy the good times. Japan was protected from foreign invasions largely because it rarely went to war with its neighbors due to a lack of strength, and China was focused more on the continent. Also as the Mongolian dominated empire discovered, it is very difficult to invade an island nation.

2. China's history might be a long one, but it's also a rather bloody one. Confucianism actually developed during China's own Warring States period, which was one of the most bloody eras in early Asian history. Then we have the wars in the Korean peninsula, the wars with what is now Russia and the Mongols. Suffice to say, China did not enjoy 3000 years of peace.

3. You are correct that China's 20th century revolutionary movements were anti-colonialist, but at that time China was also effectively divided up into warlord states that weren't fully reunified until the late 40s.

4. I'll agree at least in part. At the moment Japan looks like it's set to go through more weak governments that hang on a few years. To use a quote from an observer of Taiwan 'just because these people have elections doesn't mean they have democracy' (paraphrased).

5. Education at lower levels isn't very good (though I note that few people seem to be able to compare anything more than mathematics from Europe or Japan). However U.S higher education is considered some of the best in the world. Even when their government pushes them to Russia or China Iranian students still want to study here. Fareed Zakaria admitted that an Indian engineering degree still wasn't considered as good as an American one.

6. The U.S economy is the largest on the planet, about five or six times larger than the next largest (Japan).

7. China didn't go into foreign adventures largely because they didn't consider anything worth bothering with. You'll note that after the major fleet expedition Europe began to explode in learning and exploration while China made comparatively little progress.

8. The Soviet industry was massive at its peak, while it took China about another 20-some years (dated from the start of Communist rule) to really industrialize. If you want evidence just look at the Soviet space program. Nations can't afford costly programs like that without large reserves to back it with.

9. Japan has the second largest economy in the entire world, and more than a few international companies are based in Japan (Toyota, Mitsubishi, Toshiba and Bandai to name but a few easily recognizable ones). Admittedly Japan also has an absolutely ludicrous amount of debt that it's leaders still won't even consider doing more than window dressing taxes to address, but in sheer economic power do not underestimate the nation.

10. All of those nations have large economies, strong political ties with other strong nations, decent armies, stable politics and fairly firm rule of law. Don't underestimate any of them, it's easy to get caught in the trap of only thinking about super powers and ignoring regional powers.

 

SCOTTINDALLAS

1:36 PM ET

August 10, 2010

Taoism vs. Confucianism

I would suggest that Taoism is a more relevant influence. Taoism is the other side of the Oriental coin. You've offered a Western (Aristotelian) syllogism that doesn't work in the East.

We say there is an "A" and a "Not A" which we call "B" and a "Not A or B" which we can call "C." Whereas the Orientals might say, "A defines B and B defines A." This means that the simple formulation of the enemy of my enemy is my friend doesn't work out. They don't see dichotomies the same way we do.

Now few Asians even recognize the influence of the humble Lao-Tsu on their culture, where as the Self Aggrandizing Con Fu Tsu has a much better marketing program. However, the logical import of Confucian teaching is not substantial--veneration of elders and respect for scholarship aren't ontologically significant, though it does create the stability you correctly noted.

 

Stephen M. Walt is the Robert and Renée Belfer professor of international relations at Harvard University.

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