Friday, November 12, 2010 - 11:25 AM

I wouldn't call it a "shellacking," but President Barack Obama's trip to Asia wasn't a stunning triumph either. He got a positive reception in India -- mostly because he was giving Indians things they wanted and not asking for much in return -- and his personal history and still-evident charisma played well in Indonesia. But then he went off to the G-20 summit in Seoul, and got stiffed by a diverse coalition of foreign economic powers. Plus, an anticipated trade deal with South Korea didn't get done, depriving him of any tangible achievements to bring back home.
What lessons should we draw from this? The first and most obvious is that when your own economy is performing poorly, and when you are still saddled by costly burdens like the war in Afghanistan, you aren't going to have as much clout on the world stage. After half a century or more of global dominance, some Americans may still expect the president to waltz into global summits and get others to do what he wants (or at least most of it). But that is harder to do when you've spent the past ten years wasting trillions (yes, trillions) in Iraq and Afghanistan while other states were building their futures, and have dug yourself into a deep economic hole.
Second, the geopolitics of the trip are important, as Robert Kaplan lays out in a good New York Times op-ed this morning. I don't agree with everything he says (in particular, I think getting out of Afghanistan would reduce the need to accommodate Pakistan and simplify efforts to forge a closer relationship with India) but most of his points ring true to me.
Third, the other event this week was yet another flap between the United States and Israel, and it's not as unrelated to the situation in Asia as you might think. At about the same time that Obama was making yet another eloquent speech about the need to improve relations between the United States and the Muslim world, Israel was announcing still more construction in East Jerusalem. Just what Obama needed, right?
When Obama said this step was "counterproductive" (now there's tough language!), Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu retorted that "Jerusalem is not a settlement; it is the capital of Israel." In fact, Israeli construction in East Jerusalem is no different than a settlement in the eyes of the rest of the world, because no other government recognizes Israel's illegal annexation of these lands.
And then what happened? Netanyahu sat down for nearly a full day of talks with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who proceeded to say (for the zillionth time), that the U.S. commitment to Israel's security was "unshakeable." She then declared that the U.S. position on future talks will seek to "reconcile the Palestinian goal of an independent and viable state, based on the 1967 lines, with agreed swaps, and the Israeli goal of a Jewish state with secure and recognized borders that reflect subsequent developments and meet Israeli security requirements" (my emphasis).
Translation: the Obama administration is back in business as "Israel's lawyer," and the man who first coined that phrase -- former U.S. negotiator Aaron Miller -- said as much, referring to Clinton's statement as "the beginning of a common U.S.-Israeli approach to the peace negotiations." Given that Netanyahu has made it clear that East Jerusalem is not negotiable and that his own vision of a two-state solution is a set of disconnected Palestinian statelets under de facto Israel control, this is not an approach that is going to lead anywhere positive. And like his Cairo speech, Obama's remarks in Indonesia will soon be dismissed as more empty phrases.
So where's the connection between this issue and our strategic position in Asia? Indonesia is a potentially crucial partner for the United States (if you want to see why, take a look at the sea lanes in Southeast Asia), and it is also a moderate Muslim country with history of toleration. Yet the Palestinian issue resonates there too, and makes it harder for the Indonesian government to openly embrace the United States. As Kaplan notes in his Times op-ed, "China also plays on the tension between the West and global Islam in order to limit American influence there. That is why President Obama's mission to rebrand America in the eyes of Muslims carries benefits that go far beyond Indonesia and the Middle East."
What Kaplan doesn't say is that the United States' one-sided support for Israel against the Palestinians is an important source of the "tension" that China is exploiting. As the deputy chairman of Indonesia's largest Islamic group, Masdar Mas'udi, put it last week: "The solution of the Palestine problem is key to many problems between the West and the Muslim world… Our hope as Muslims to Obama and the U.S. is not unreasonable: If the Palestine problem could be resolved, it would be more than enough."
So the next time you read about some senator or congressperson denouncing any attempt to use U.S. leverage on both sides to bring about a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian dispute, ask yourself why they are trying to undermine the U.S. effort to bolster its strategic position in a region that ultimately matters far more to U.S. security and prosperity. And by making it harder to achieve a workable two-state solution that would preserve its democratic and Jewish character and enhance its international legitimacy, they aren't doing Israel any favors either. Indeed, the remarkable thing about these zealots is that they are managing to undermine the United States' security and Israel's long-term future at the same time.
TIM SLOAN/AFP/Getty Images
EXPLORE:OBAMA AND THE ISRAEL LOBBY, MIDDLE EAST, SOUTH ASIA, SOUTHEAST ASIA, AFGHANISTAN, DIPLOMACY, FINANCIAL CRISIS, G-20, INDIA, ISLAM, ISRAEL/PALESTINE, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, RESPONDING TO AARON DAVID MILLER, U.S. FOREIGN POLICY
This is so clear, and the situation has gotten so irrational, that I can't understand why it isn't entirely obvious to reasonable, educated people.
Prof. Walt,
The link to Robert Kaplan's NYT op-ed and Obama's 'eloquent speech' point to the same page. Are they meant to?
This article probably should of mentioned about iran's oil?
One would think that asian countries other than China would want some oil from Iran as well to fuel their own economic growths. Korea for example wants to deal with Iran but is afraid of the US.
US's continued insistence of sanctioning Iran (which is viewed by many as a directive from Israel) doesn't serve in Asian nations' best interests.
Has The Daily Show ever made a clip reel
of all the times high level government officials talking about the bond with Israel and how it's "unshakable/unbreakable"? It's a broken record, there must be a clip like that somewhere on youtube.
In the case of Congress, reelection is "Job One"! And Two. And..
RE: "the remarkable thing about these zealots is that they are managing to undermine the United States' security and Israel's long-term future at the same time." - Walt
MY COMMENT: The root of the problem is that a considerable majority of our Congresspersons put their own interests over the interests of the nation they supposedly serve (and Israel's, as well). They tow the Likud line because they are afraid that if they cross AIPAC they will be targeted for defeat and lose their cherished memberships in the Congress. And there are countless other 'special interest' groups they will not risk crossing. Getting reelected (not quality) is "Job One"!
“You can’t use tact with a Congressman! A Congressman is a hog! You must take a stick and hit him on the snout!” – Henry Brooks Adams ~ American journalist, historian, academic and novelist (1838- 1918)
It may be satisfying to make such broad statements, but it is hardly well thought out. AIPAC is not some monolithic, all-powerful group. If it was then the first President Bush would not have cut aid to Israel to punish it for not abiding by his wishes. And President Obama would not dare cross them if they were so powerful. Moreover, it is in AIPAC's self interest to make sure the USA stays strong as it is quite clear that the rest of the world would sell Israel out if it meant appeasing the Arab world. The moralistic Europeans dare not even vote against a single spurious UN resolution attacking Israel for fear of threatening their oil supply. One wonders why we never hear talk of the "ARAB LOBBY" from Missrs Walt and company. Seems as if they pour far more funds into the US, European and other political systems. Why does that not raise the ire of the intellectual classes? Where is the questioning of the evil intentions of the Petroleum Institute or the Carlysle Group? I guess that all-powerful Israel/.Jewish lobby is not so effective after all!
The babblings of a paid stooge
"If it was then the first President Bush would not have cut aid to Israel to punish it for not abiding by his wishes."
First things first: the principle means by which George H Bush pressured Israel was to withhold US loan guarantees, and that is a different matter than the symbolic - and temporary - holdup of military aid.
Secondly, of course, your statement is meaningless if it does not analyse the political blowback that Bush suffered from taking that action, which was both considerable and very well orchestrated by..... gosh!.... guess who....
"And President Obama would not dare cross them if they were so powerful."
Define "them". If you mean "AIPAC" then I'd be very interested to see when and where he has ever taken them on in a political fight, because all I have ever seen is obsequessness.
"Moreover, it is in AIPAC's self interest to make sure the USA stays strong as it is quite clear that the rest of the world would sell Israel out if it meant appeasing the Arab world."
The alternative view is, of course, that the rest of the world is able to take a dispassionate attitude, and this allows then to Call It As It Is.
"The moralistic Europeans dare not even vote against a single spurious UN resolution attacking Israel for fear of threatening their oil supply."
This rather presupposes that the UN Resolutions are spurious, which is a tough sell when you consider that most of those resolutions criticise Israel's position as The Worlds Longest Running Occupier and The Only Country On Earth Who Thinks It Can Annex Territory By War.
"One wonders why we never hear talk of the "ARAB LOBBY" from Missrs Walt and company."
Maybe because there isn't one worth mentioning.
"Seems as if they pour far more funds into the US, European and other political systems."
It sure does seem that way, doesn't it?
Mind you, it seems as though the Earth is flat when, in fact, it is a globe...
"Why does that not raise the ire of the intellectual classes?"
Possibly because they are more intelligent than their detractors.
"Where is the questioning of the evil intentions of the Petroleum Institute or the Carlysle Group?"
Remind me again who they are occupying
"I guess that all-powerful Israel/.Jewish lobby is not so effective after all!"
Well, if you are the best they can come up with then I'd have to say their standards are definitely slipping....
...and speaking of Global Jewish Conspiracy Fanatics...
...you sound like one. For it is you who make paper-thin arguments devoid of facts and still promote the nonsense that the "Israel Lobby" controls the levers of power.
"Define "them". If you mean "AIPAC" then I'd be very interested to see when and where he has ever taken them on in a political fight, because all I have ever seen is obsequessness."
By the very fact he is making the settlements an issue and pushing hard for Israelis to stop construction even in Jerusalem, he is going up against the desires of AIPAC, not to mention the majority of clear-thinking Israelis and Americans who know settlemetns are a red herring. In fact, his policy change from that of the previous administration goes against verbal understandings made between Pres Bush and PM Sharon to facilitate Israel's evacuation from Gaza. Clearly, President Obama does not seem to fear this all-powerful lobby.
"The alternative view is, of course, that the rest of the world is able to take a dispassionate attitude, and this allows then to Call It As It Is."
Not really. I would hardly call the increasing anti-Semitic discourse present in European policy circles, as well as the general public, as "dispassionate." Perhaps you should read the "Anti-Semitic Discourse in Britain in 2009” prepared by the Community Security Trust, which documents widespread anti-Semitism in Brith media and government. Do you forget the comments made by French Ambassador to the Court of St. James Mons. Charpentier when he referred to Israel as "that shitty little country?" The story is the same throughout Europe. Moreover, they are practitioners of realpolitick, and would gladly sell out an ally to preserve the oil supply from Arab dictatorships. Europe's WWII betrayal of Czechoslovakia still rings true.
"This rather presupposes that the UN Resolutions are spurious, which is a tough sell when you consider that most of those resolutions criticise Israel's position as The Worlds Longest Running Occupier and The Only Country On Earth Who Thinks It Can Annex Territory By War."
Really? The only country? Tell that to China, which has conquered and annexed Tibet. How about the Spanish Sahara, which has been occupied and annexed by Morocco. I gues those poor Berbers have no rights, right? Or, how about Spain occupying Moroccan territory? Or, the UK occupying Gibraltar, which Spain still demands back? And Israel's historic, religious, and political claims on Judea and Samaria, what you call the West Bank, are far, far stronger than the claims of the UK on Gibraltar. BTW, the Brits have been occupying Gibraltar far longer than the Israelis have held Judea and Samaria since taking that territory back. Looks like you need a history lesson on who is the :Longest Running Occupier." The only reason Israel receives international opprobrium is because it is a small, weak nation. Ask yourslef why there is no international outcry over these other "occupations." Gues that Jewish Lobby is not so effective after all!
"Maybe because there isn't one worth mentioning."
Really? Billions of petro dollars pouring into every Western nation not worth mentioning? The oil money far exceeds any financial clout of those rich Jews. Sovereign wealth funds and the creation of think tanks towing the Arab line are prevalent and exert a HUGE influence on Western government and academia, and therefore public opinion.
"Remind me again who they are occupying."
See above my friend.
"Well, if you are the best they can come up with then I'd have to say their standards are definitely slipping...."
And here we come right down to it again. You accuse me of being a "paid stooge" of this "Jewish Lobby." Rather tahn mount an effective argument you, like all your racist friends, prefer to embrace conspiracy theories. Here you go resembling the hate-mongers of the Far Left and the Arab World that refuse to see the humanity of the Israeli people. Instead, you use comfortable stereotypes that allow you to paint your opponent as a tool, a corrupt oppressor. You just made my point that teh majority of the criticism of Israel is merely a new manifestation of anti-Semitism. Thanks for that.
"By the very fact he is making the settlements an issue and pushing hard for Israelis to stop construction even in Jerusalem, he is going up against the desires of AIPAC,"
And that is, of course, a battle between the USA Administration and the Government of Israel, not between the Administration and AIPAC i.e. in such a policy battle it is AIPAC who jumps in to take on the President, not vice versa.
"In fact, his policy change from that of the previous administration goes against verbal understandings made between Pres Bush and PM Sharon to facilitate Israel's evacuation from Gaza."
Remind me again: whose administration wrote the Road Map? Which Prime Minister of Israel signed it?
A signed agreement does rather trump a "verbal understanding", and there is no doubt that the previous administration wrote an agreement that committed Israel to freeze ALL construction.
You therefore can not claim that the push to freeze all construction is a new Obama initiative and a policy turnabout from the previous Administration, precisely because the Road Map shows that the Bush Administration understood perfectly well that settlement construction had to freeze if a peace agreement was to suceed.
"Not really. I would hardly call the increasing anti-Semitic discourse present in European policy circles,"
... followed by a paragraph of emotive nonsense about how Europe is a cesspit of anti-semitic appeasers.....
"Tell that to China, which has conquered and annexed Tibet."
Factually incorrect. Tibet has been the sovereign territory of China for at least the last 1,000 years. What happened in the 1950s is that the communist government reestablished central authority over a rebel province. Strong arm tactics: yes. Unsubtle: Yes. Annexation: no.
"How about the Spanish Sahara, which has been occupied and annexed by Morocco."
You can not "occupy" and "annex" at the same time, sunshine. It has to be one or the other.
It is, in fact, an occupation because Morocco has never formally annexed that territory.
And as for the rest of your examples: the prohibition of the acquisition of territory by war is a 20th century conflict, so it is pointless dragging out any examples from the Age of Empire or the Age of Colonial Expansionism.
"The only reason Israel receives international opprobrium is because it is a small, weak nation."
No, it is because Israel *ALONE* insists on pretending that colonial expansionism is *STILL* legal, even though it ceased being legal in the 20th century.
This is actually very simple: what was legal then was legal THEN, but you can not use that argument to reproduce the same result NOW.
Only Israel doesn't "get it".
"Ask yourslef why there is no international outcry over these other 'occupations.' "
Most. Of. Them. Aren't. Occupations.
"Billions of petro dollars pouring into every Western nation not worth mentioning?"
Billions and billions of petro dollars, actually. It's called "investments", and any smart businessman knows that you don't leave money in the bank: you invest it.
Now, how many of those billions aren't INVESTED in American enterprises but are, instead, spent creating an Arab Lobby?
My friend does not answer, because he knows what that answer would be....
"You accuse me of being a "paid stooge" of this "Jewish Lobby." Rather tahn mount an effective argument you, like all your racist friends, prefer to embrace conspiracy theories."
Israel has made no secret that it employs shills to spruik its wares on the Internet. Indeed, it boasts about it.
Q: how does one spot the shill amongst all the wellmeaning (if deluded) Israeli-firsters?
A: It is the barely concealed arrogance, allied with a self-righteous condescention, that marks the paid-up shill.
You fit the bill quite nicely, shill.
Boy, you have a weak grasp of history
There are too many factual errors to waste time educating you on them all. But I will correct one as an example. Tibet was annexed by China and China did not rule Tibet from the 13th century onward as the Chinese (and apparently you) claim. Although Tibet did submit to the Mongol and Manchu Empires, neither attached Tibet to China. The same documentary record that shows Tibetan subjugation to the Mongols and Manchus also shows that China’s intervening Ming Dynasty (which ruled from 1368 to 1644) had no control over Tibet. So, China’s insistence that Chinese sovereignty was exercised in an unbroken line from the 13th century onward is false. The idea that Tibet became part of China in the 13th century is a very recent construction. In the early part of the 20th century, Chinese writers generally dated the annexation of Tibet to the 18th century. They described Tibet’s status under the Qing with a term that designates a “feudal dependency,” not an integral part of a country. Meaning, they paid tribute to the Chinese but remained quite independent. From 1912 until the founding of the People’s Republic of China in 1949, no Chinese government exercised control over what is today China’s Tibet Autonomous Region. The Dalai Lama’s government alone ruled the land until 1951. Marxist China adopted the linguistic sleight of hand that asserts it has always been a unitary multinational country, not the hub of empires. There is now firm insistence that “Han,” actually one of several ethnonyms for “Chinese,” refers to only one of the Chinese nationalities. This was a conscious decision of those who constructed 20th-century Chinese identity. (It stands in contrast to the Russian decision to use a political term, “Soviet,” for the peoples of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.) So, again, China illegally invaded and annexed Tibet. Where is the international outrage? Where is yours? Don't answer...I know...those Chinese stooges paid by the Chinese government to troll the internet spreading Zionist...I mean Chinese Communist...lies must be very effective. They have fooled the world...BWAAA BWAAAA. Get a clue. Look inside yourself and ask why it is you focus exclusively on Israel. Where are the UN resolutions against China, Morocco, UK, Spain? There never will be because these are powerful nations with powerful allies, able to veto a resolution or gain a sonsortium of allies to prevent one from even being proposed. That is realpolitik, that is how the world works. I am done explaining this to you now. Feel free to write more falsehoods on this subject. Claim again that Morocco is not a modern occupier (not from the Colonial Period). I won't waste more time on you. I have to go report back to my Zionist masters now. That is sarcasm in case your delusional mind finds it difficult to tell the difference.
Tibet refused to recognize the central rule of Peking in the 19th and early 20th century because they were encouraged to do so by the British, who wanted Tibet to act as a buffer zone for India. It was, indeed, a central part of The Great Game between Britain and Russia during the beginning of the 20th century.
But the British were very, very, very clear on this point: Tibet was never to declare independence i.e. they were not to declare themselves to be the sovereign, but to insist they were involved in a suzerainty with China.
Your argument therefore falls down on that point: Britain, Russia and THE TIBETANS THEMSELVES all recognized that the suzerain was China i.e. Tibet was a part of China, but the Tibetans insisted that they had regional autonomy that existed apart from the central government in Peking.
The Chinese disagreed, and the moment they had the opportunity to do so they matched their rhetoric with action. They were perfectly entitled to do so, because their action in the 1950s amounted to a military action to sweep away that (supposed) regional AUTONOMY, not to sweep away a Tibetan SOVEREIGNTY.
That is not "annexation", because that requires that you seize "sovereignty" for yourself.
And that the Chinese did not do, precisely because sovereignty was already theirs.
Interesting point THEANTICLAUS
"By the very fact he is making the settlements an issue and pushing hard for Israelis to stop construction even in Jerusalem, he is going up against the desires of AIPAC"
WAS gong up against the desires of AIPAC. Obama has backed down and allowed himself to be humiliated by Netenyahu, which is a clear example of AIPAC's clout.
Of course, Obama has some very big sticks and carrots to wield. He could:
a) terminate aid to Israel
b) terminate all loan guarantees to Israel
c) push for bindign UNSC resolutions against Israel
d) cote in favor of, or abstain from voting to recognize Palestines declararation of idependence
He will do none of the above
Simplistic Analysis THEANTICLAUS?
The Jewish Telegraph Agency's Ron Kampeas -- himself a reflexive American defender of most things Israel -- was astonished, and wrote:
"I can't remember an opposition leader telling a foreign leader, in a personal meeting, that he would side, as a policy, with that leader against the president. Certainly, in statements on one specific issue or another -- building in Jerusalem, or somesuch -- lawmakers have taken the sides of other nations. But to have-a-face to face and say, in general, we will take your side against the White House -- that sounds to me extraordinary."
Even the Israeli firsters are beginning to think this is a ridiculous situation.
Again, Walt demonstrates his unhealthy fascination, some might say obsession, with Israel. He calls for pressure to be placed on both parties. I wholeheartedly agree. Unfortunately, all we see is Obama pressuring Israel. In fact, it is Obama who has made the Israeli communities over the Green Line the issue. The Palestinians were content to negotiate while construction continued inthe Oslo and Madrid period. By making building an issue he has forced the Palestinian leader, Abu Mazen, to toe the US line and refuse to negotiate without a freeze. After all, how can the Palestinian leader be more libeeral than the US President in this regard. This foolishness is evidence of Obama's tragic inexperience and lack of judgment. As for pressure on the Palestinians, what is Walt talking about? The Palestinians continue to spread anti-Semitic hatred via their mosques, schools and PA-controlled media. All of this is in clear contravention of previously signed agreements. More importantly, it makes it impossible to make peace if the population is so radicalized that they deshumanize their interlocutors. Why make peace with "sons of pigs and apes," to use the Arabic pejorative?
As for tolerant Indonesia, while it has made strides toward greater inclusiveness, this is still a nation where Christian chruches are burned and Christians are attacked after blood libels falsely accusing that community of crimes against Islam. Just ask the Timorese how "tolerant" Indonesia's form of Islam is. Seems the President still thinks he can make peace by denying the facts. So does Mr. Walt.
Where this lamentable argument falls down...
"All of this is in clear contravention of previously signed agreements. "
That statement is the very definition of chutzpah, considering that the last such signed agreement was the 2003 Performance Based Road Map To Peace.
And in that 2003 document we find these two lines:
Israel also freezes all settlement activity, consistent with the Mitchell report.
Consistent with the Mitchell Report, GOI freezes all settlement activity (including natural growth of settlements).
The claim that settlement construction beyond the Green Line was never an issue until bama brought it up is therefore nothing but a steaming pile of manure i.e. Obama brought it up as an issue because BOTH SIDE HAD ALREADY AGREED THAT THIS ISSUE WA TO BE RESOLVED BY FREEZING ALL CONSTRUCTION UNTIL THE FINAL DEAL IS SIGNED.
What you are complaining about is that Obama - how foolish of him! - expects that when a party puts their signature on a piece of paper then that signifies a COMMITTMENT. Doesn't he know that Israelis always keep their finger crossed behind their backs when they sign anything????
No, J Thomas. He merely has an impossible brief.
"Anticlaus, you are seriously weird."
No, he has been handed a case to argue on behalf of his client, and that's what he is doing.
It is an impossible brief, and that's why he is comes out sounding like a doofus.
Was that an argument? Very compelling facts...not. Next time, try to persuade with evidence rather than ad hominem attack. Pathetic.
THEANTICLAUS' obsession with Walt
“ The Palestinians continue to spread anti-Semitic hatred via their mosques, schools and PA-controlled media.”
And visa versa. Israel has banned schools in Israel from covering the Nakba in history classes and only this week, Israel threatened to to raid West Bank secondary school unless they end commemoration of Yasser Arafat.
And lets not forget the delightful rabbis who advocate wholesale gencide against us goys, and referrign to them as sub human.
“All of this is in clear contravention of previously signed agreements.”
Whether it is on not is irrelevant, seeing as the US had no legal authority to sign any agreement with Israel without having it been granted permission to do so by the UNSC.
“More importantly, it makes it impossible to make peace if the population is so radicalized that they deshumanize their interlocutors.”
I coudln’t agree more. The deshumanizing of Palestinians by the Zionists has been taking place since the turn of the 19th century.
“ Why make peace with "sons of pigs and apes," to use the Arabic pejorative?”
And why make peace with “beats” and “cockroaches” and “human feaces”?
As for tolerant Indonesia, while it has made strides toward greater inclusiveness, this is still a nation where Christian chruches are burned and Christians are attacked after blood libels falsely accusing that community of crimes against Islam.
“ Just ask the Timorese how "tolerant" Indonesia's form of Islam is.”
Maybe you should be asking hard core Zionists like Henry Kissinger and co, who were only too happy to send and seel arms to Indonesia, so that they could better demonstrate that form of tolerance.
Then again, Israel could always give them tips on the best way to drop white phosphorus an cluster bombs on civilian populations.
Stephen Walt's focus on the Israeli-Palestinian issue is extremely relevant to America's real and perceived credibility as a nation that places self-determination and freedom as core principles of its foreign policy.
In addition, Israel has been occupying and/or controlling the West Bank & Gaza for over 40 years, since 1967. Please explain how the Jewish people would feel if the shoe was on the other foot....i.e. the unrelenting encroachment through settlements, check-points & utter humiliation of a people without a homeland.
That requires "empathy", WIZARD44
The concept has no place in zionism.
I'll bet it beats Islamist empathy pal
Nobody beats radical Islamist groups for their hatred of "the other." Hizbollah and Hamas have constructed core ideologies based upon this Islamic theology of Jew hatred, which one can glean readily from their foundational documents, and subsequent pronouncements, made ad nauseum. Hamas further demonstrates openly its adherence to a central motif of Jew—hatred in Muslim eschatology—Article 7 of the Hamas Charter concludes with a verbatim reiteration of the apocalyptic hadith alluded to earlier:
'The Last Hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: `Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him'; but the tree Gharkad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.' (Sahih Muslim, Book 40, Number 6985).
Both jihadist terror organizations believe they can succeed in their goal to destroy Israel—motivated by a primordial hatred of Jews, sanctioned in Muslim theology and eschatology. Yep, those settlements sure are the main impediment to peace--HAH!! Walt is a wanker.
"Nobody beats radical Islamist groups for their hatred of 'the other.' "
You would do well to look in a mirror.
Not that you'd recognize what's looking you right in the face but, to be honest, that's your problem and not mine....
Right wing Zionists take the prize
“Nobody beats radical Islamist groups for their hatred of "the other."”
Then by all means, do produce a speech that competes with this sterling effort from Menachem Begin:
"Our race is the Master Race. We Jews are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." (Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset [Israeli Parlament], quoted by Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts," New Statesman, June 25, 1982)"
“Hizbollah and Hamas have constructed core ideologies based upon this Islamic theology of Jew hatred”
False. Hezbollah and Hamas’s core ideology is based on resistance to occupation.
Ironically, Israel created Hamas to act as a cat’s paw against the PLO. Hezbollah would not exist were it not for Israel’s addiction to military occupation.
“Hamas further demonstrates openly its adherence to a central motif of Jew—hatred in Muslim eschatology”
The only difference between the Hamas cCharetr and the Likud/Kadmia charters is the absence of the call for Palestine’s destruction because it would be redundant.
“Both jihadist terror organizations believe they can succeed in their goal to destroy Israel”
False again. Hezbollah’s role, as Lebanese nationalistic movement, is to resist Israel occupation and aggression and on that score, they have succeeded twice.
Zionists are incensed by the fac tthat they've been humiliated twice by Hezbollah.
I enjoy reading your articles
The NY Times had an unusually insightful article on how even in Indonesia, the president's speech is met with skepticism because of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
"In Jakarta Speech, Some Hear Cairo Redux"
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/11/world/asia/11indo.html?scp=1&sq=cairo&st=cse
it is funny how all that people do is criticizes every little thing the president does poor guy can not even make a mistake with out people talking. sometimes all we do is talk talk talk about what we wish things will change and why isn't the president trying to make a change and how we are making no progress with the relations of other countries. but than again what is the United States situation today, is not the best condition ever and yes sadly problems just keep arriving more and more. I am not saying that is okay for the president to be making mistakes but he can only do so much at a time. that is why we must be patient and hope for the best in the future.
another impeccable analysis from Mr. Walt
I'm an Indonesian who live in Indonesia, and indeed as one im endowed with an understanding that many of my fellow friends who commented dont have
Palestine MATTERS significantly for us,on every occasion when Israel displays its raw brutality (like the assualt on aid flotilla), thousands of people rally on the street throwing rotten eggs to US embassy chanting US Israel go to hell, and it took place in all Major cities not inly in Jakarta, the media coverage was extensive exceeding the scrutini of tons of domestic problems.
and please do not correlate this fact because most of us are Muslims, this is a humanitarian issue. In many of the demonstrations many christians, Buddhists and Hinduist also took part in expressing their outrage toward Israel.
Yep Indonesia is far from perfect but to compare things as they were in 1980s or 1990s is downright absurd. Now Chinese new year is celebrated as a national holiday, Chinese can use chinese names all they want, There has been special autonomy granted to Papua, there has been commision of Reconciliation between Indonesia and East Timor. And yes it doesnt mean that we are flawless, we got many homeworks to finish but we have done our best to mend things
And even if we are not perfect, Indonesia i think is undoubtedly very important for US and vice versa, as well as many other Muslim majority countries play very important roles for Washington.
And let there be no doubt
When US remains an unyielding advocate for Israel
Better strategic relationship with Indonesia and many other countries is just ILLUSION
p.s. to Prof Walt please dont be intimidated by all the whackos who desecrate your thought, claiming that supporting all Israel desire will bring benefit to US and Israel alike
Indonesia does have a long way to go
I'd be truly impressed if Indonesians were humanists first, Muslims second. The day they take to the streets to protest bombings of Shia mosques in Pakistan, the murder of thousands of Afghans by Taliban fascists, the laucnhing of terror attacks by Hizb Allah and HAMAS against innocent Israeli civilians eating their dinners, the persecution of Christians in Indonesia by Islamists, or any one of the thousands of heinous incidents of radical Islamist violence visited upon Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus and others each year. I not that Abdurrahman Wahid has inscribed upon his tombstone "Humanist," although he was a traditional Muslim leading the largest Islamic organization in Indonesia prior to his death. Too bad more Indonesians do not embrace his view that we are all children of God. Too bad Israel has become such a boogeyman in the minds of so many millions of Muslims. You are victims of a propaganda campaign that seeks to divert attention away from your rulers' own failings, from your own troubles. Israel is the Jew among nations, a convenient scapegoat. The conflict between Israel and its Arab neighbors cannot be allowed to be solved because it would then allow all those who were deceived to begin to take a closer look at their own leaders. Those leaders must keep this conflict an open, festering wound. One day you will awake to this reality. Then, peace might stand a chance.
THEANTICLAUS is only concerned about Israeli civilians
The fact that Israel has laid waste to at least ten times as many Palestinian civilians doesn’t rate a mention. The racism and racial supremacy is palable.
Too bad he ignores his own advice and does not embrace the view that we are all children of God.
Too bad Israel has become such a boogeyman in the minds of so many millions of Muslims. You are victims of a propaganda campaign that seeks to divert attention away from your rulers' own failings, from your own troubles.
"Israel is the Jew among nations, a convenient scapegoat.”
Apartheid South Africa used to make the same complaint, which is moist fitting since
Israel was Apartheid South Africa’s closest ally.
Clearly they shared many values.
“Those leaders must keep this conflict an open, festering wound. One day you will awake to this reality. Then, peace might stand a chance”
Yes, that would explain why 22 Arab states have signed a peace offer to not only recognize Israel, but normalize relations with Israel. Clearly it is a document mean to
“keep this conflict an open”.
That would explain why Israel is the party that has rejected the offer.
Clearly you're not planning on sticking abroudn this blog for very long, prefering to dump as much bile as you can before you are banned.
Pitty, but thanks for the comic relief THEANTICLAUS.
Prof Walt, we Indonesians would be very honored if one day you can speak at one of our universities, your thought has been appealing here, ur book on Israel lobby is very welcomed
So with all humility please give a little room for us in your mind. I really need your email and i dnt know how can i get it
Sincerely yours
on behalf of thousands of your fans in Indonesia
So very true, Prof. Walt.
Also, I must thank you so very much for your recommendation for readers here to read former Ambassador Chas W. Freeman´s stunning book "America´s Misadventures in the Middle East". Stunning, because it turns out that Mr Freeman very early had a true view of the problems in the ME, and their importance for 9/11 and other Al-Qaeda´s attacks. Also, he knew early on what was wrong with the U.S. politics in the area, esp, in Afghanistan and Iraq.
And obviously, nobody in the Bush administration, or in U.S. media, did listen to him.
This Spring, the Lobby succeeded in preventing Mr Freeman´s promotion to chair the NIC; a tragedy as well as an insult to the Obama administration. So the Obama administration will perhaps not listen to him, either?
And today: Newsmedia are reporting that the U.S. is going to further bribe Israel, with new, advanced jet fighters, for a ninety days building freeze on occupied land in the West Bank. NINETY DAYS!
Does charging grocery store customers for biodegradable bags represent environmental responsibility or just corporate greed?
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In case you haven't noticed, Obama is the most Anti-Israel president America has ever had. He has personally humiliated Israel's prime minister, forced Israel to make unilateral concessions that weaken its security and leverage in negotiations, not made a single demand of the Palestinians at all, violated Israel's sovereignty on multiple occasions as he did in Indonesia (a country that Jews and Israelis cannot live in or even enter), believes in the "Palestinian narrative," and Susan Rice in the UN has joined the UN Human Rights Council and voted against Israel in this body repeatedly.
All of this to appease tenured radicals, Anti-Zionists, Anti-Semites, and Marxists like yourself, Walt. Meanwhile, according to Gallup, the American people rightly support the brave and proud Israelis as opposed to the murderous Palestinians and their corrupt, terrorist leaders by a three-to-one margin.
So Walt, go back to reading your Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
In case you haven't noticed, Kennedy was the most Anti-Israel president America has ever had.
Israel's prime minister is a right wing extremist who supports the illegal settlement construction, and refused to compromise.
Israel never made unilateral concessions, it continued building 600 apartments in East Jerusalem and FYI, stealing land and building settlements on Palestinian land is not done in the name of security.
There are no more demands to be made of the Palestinians. They have nothing left to offer, because Israel is 100% in control.
Indonesia has never been part of Israel, hence there is no possible way to violate Israel's sovereignty from Indonesia. And FYI, Jews and Israelis are free to enter Indonesia. I would know, since I have travelled there many times with Jewish friends.
Susan Rice has NEVER voted against Israel.
“Meanwhile, according to Gallup, the American people rightly support the brave and proud Israelis as opposed to the murderous Palestinians and their corrupt, terrorist leaders by a three-to-one margin.”
Actually, the Gallup poll show that most Americans don’t care about the apartheid state of Israel one way or the other. More importantly, the polls show support it declining.
As for corruption, Israel was recently ranked among the most corrupt in the Western world.
Israel may be a proud state, but they are anything but brave. After all, Nentenyahu wanted Americans to remain in Iraq for Israel’s security and last week, he was in the US asking the US to fight a war on it’s behalf.
Congratulations. You managed to be 100% wrong.
You rely upon dubious scholarship to suppot your innate anti-Semitism. That's right, anti-Semitism....no need to refer to anti-Zionism. You are clearly the former. Now, you pals Walt/Mearsheimer are alot like you. They have very fixed anti-Jewish ideas that they defend through twisted logic and false history. They hide behind a rather flimsy cloak of scholarship that is merely propaganda in disguise. If I was grading their paper (The Israel Lobby) , I would give them an F. I certainly wouldn't ahve granted them a Masters if this was their dissertation.
For an example of their tendentious claims and falsification of evidence:
Walt and Mearsheimer also dredge up other supposed quotes (page 89) to argue that Israeli leaders are racists. Thus they charge that former Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin called the Palestinians “beasts walking on two legs” and former IDF Chief of Staff Rafael Eitan termed them “drugged roaches in a bottle.”
Did Begin say that Palestinians are beasts? The answer is absolutely not. In a June 8, 1982 statement to the Israeli parliament, Begin did use the term “two-footed animals,” but he was referring not to Palestinians but to terrorists who would murder Israeli schoolchildren. Begin’s statement is available online; here is the relevant passage:
The children of Israel will happily go to school and joyfully return home, just like the children in Washington, in Moscow, and in Peking, in Paris and in Rome, in Oslo, in Stockholm and in Copenhagen. The fate of... Jewish children has been different from all the children of the world throughout the generations. No more. We will defend our children. If the hand of any two-footed animal is raised against them, that hand will be cut off, and our children will grow up in joy in the homes of their parents.
Obviously there is nothing racist in the least in Begin’s statement, and once again the genuine quote actually undermines the point Walt and Mearsheimer were deceptively trying to make. And what about the Eitan quote? Did he really refer to the Palestinians as roaches? Once again, not quite. For this claim Walt and Mearsheimer cite a New York Times article from 1983, but the relevant passage says something very different:
[Eitan reportedly told] Parliament's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee that for every incident of stone-throwing by Arab youths, 10 settlements should be built. "When we have settled the land," he was quoted as saying, "all the Arabs will be able to do about it is scurry around like drugged roaches in a bottle." (New York Times, April 14, 1983, p A3)
Now Eitan was never known for his diplomacy, but the expression he used clearly meant that the Palestinians would have no effective response to the policy he proposed. That is no more calling the Palestinians roaches than, for example, it would be calling Walt and Mearsheimer fish to say that deconstructing the claims of Walt and Mearsheimer is like “shooting fish in a barrel.”
I really don't understand why the US is so devoted to a two state solution. Before 1947 there was only one country, there, it was called Palestine.
Today, there is still only a single country there. It has a funny flag and they want us to call it Israel instead of Palestine. Only half the people in its territory can vote, but they like to pretend they are a democracy.
So, give the vote to all adults and let them solve things democratically. The name of the country, who can live where, who can immigrate into the country, how much money can emigrants take out.
The 2 state solution has become a trojen horse
It's obvious to anyone paying attention that the 2 state solution is dead.
Of course, no political leader is allowed to make such a statement.
It's no mystery why so many who are defending the illegal settlements are also maintaining that they support a 2 state solution. The 2 state solution is dead and will never see the light of day, but insisting that it's still on the table buys time for Israel to continue to change the facts on the ground. The 2 non existent 2 state solution also gives political cover to those who actually oppose it, becasue they can safely claim to support it safe in the knowledge it will never happen.
For example, Jonah Goldberg claims he opposes the settlements, yet could not contain his glee when the so called moratorium ended.
FOR JOHNNYBOY666, NEO-TOILET AND MARLO THOMAS...I'M BACK!
Miss me boys? Or are you guys still stroking each others' ego? You really should get a room ;>)
So many lies, so little time to refute. Here's one on your claims that Hizballah is merely seeking to free Lebanon of bad old Zionist domination. In fact, they seek to take over Lebanon completely, and they will do so very, very shortly. Here's a little more about them for our readers:
Within a month of current Hizballah religious leader Nasrallah's taking over of the terrorist group, Hezbollah (with the help of Iranian intelligence) bombed the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires, killing 29 and injuring over 200. The next attack perpetrated by Hezbollah—again with Iranian help—was the bombing of the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires, killing 86 and injuring over 200.
The widening arena of Hezbollah's attacks stemmed from Nasrallah's perception that Jews anywhere are legitimate targets. In fact, Nasarallah has said:
If they (Jews) all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide. (Daily Star, Oct. 23, 2002)
Shiite scholar Amal Saad-Ghorayeb analyzed the anti-Jewish roots of Hezbollah ideology in her book Hezbollah: Politics & Religion. In it, she quotes Hassan Nasrallah describing his antipathy toward Jews:
If we searched the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew. Notice, I do not say the Israeli. (New Yorker, Oct. 14, 2002)
Nasrallah also incoroporates anti-Semitic rhetoric in speeches. For example, he has characterized Jews as the "grandsons of apes and pigs" and "Allah's most cowardly and greedy creatures." (MEMRI: Al- Manar, Feb. 3, 2006)
Despite his anti-Semitic invective, there are few references to this in the mainstream media.
So much for your false claims these animals simply wanted to liberate Lebanon. In fact, they seek to enslave it. And they seek to kill Jews everywhere in teh world. Given the opportuntiy, one day they will deliver a nuke into Europe on board an Air Berlin flight from Namibia for the sake of plausibile deniability.
Incitement was always part and parcel of Hezbollah's strategy. In an interview with Al-Safir, Hezbollah Chief Nasrallah described his priorities and methods in the first months of Hezbollah's formation:
The main effort at the time went into mustering and attracting young men and setting up military camps ....
The second effort was spreading the word among the people, first, in a bid to raise their morale, and second to instil in them a sense of animosity towards the enemy, coupled with a spirit of resistence...this required us to use the language of indoctrination rather than realpolitik. People then were not in need of political analysis, they were in need of being incited and goaded. (Hala Jaber, Hezbollah Born With a Vengeance, Columbia University Press, 1997, pp. 49-50)
Nasrallah purveys his message via Hezbollah's own television network, Al-Manar, a primary engine of incitement to violence against Jews, Israelis and Americans. Al Manar's stated mission is to "wage psychological warfare against the Zionist enemy." This is often done by glorifying attacks, particularly suicide missions against Israel. Last year, Nasrallah appeared on Al-Manar encouraging "martyrdom" among children, saying:
How can death become joyous? How can death become happiness? When Al-Hussein asked his nephew Al-Qassem, when he had not yet reached puberty: "How do you like the taste of death, son?" He answered that it was sweeter than honey. How can the foul taste of death become sweeter than honey? Only through conviction, ideology, and faith, through belief, and devotion.
We do not want to...leave our homeland to Israel... Therefore, we are not interested in our own personal security. On the contrary, each of us lives his days and nights hoping more than anything to be killed for the sake of Allah. (MEMRI: Al-Manar TV , Feb. 18-19, 2005)
In May, Nasrallah appeared on Al-Manar TV to explain that "our nation's willingness to sacrifice their blood, souls, children, fathers, and families" is an advantage over the Jews "who guard their lives." (MEMRI: Al-Manar TV on May 23, 2006.)
In recent years Al Manar has been broadcast into Europe via satellite, spreading its hatred. It is amazing folks like Johynncake and Neo0Kook think Israel is the problem when this hate mongering keeps the fire going in the Middle East. Until hate propoganda is stopped and coexistance taught in the Arab world, as it is in israel, peace is impossible. Yes, you can find an idiot like Ovadia Yossef in Israel spounting anti-Arab hatred, but it pales in comparison to what exists in the Arab media, schools and mosques. Israeli schoolbooks preach coexistance and tolerance, as do respectable leaders. The majority of the citizens and state institutions promote coexistance, while those who preach the same in the Arab world are ostracized by society at large. Sometimes, they are threatened, arrested or killed, folks like Bassam Eid or Khaled Abu Toameh.
PALESTINIAN INTIMIDATION OF JOURNALISTS
The reason most people have a one-sided opinion of the conflict is because the media in West presents only the Arab narrative, giving scant attention to the Israeli perspective. Valid Israeli concerns like security, terrorism and their valid claims on territory are barely covered. Why is that? Could it be because journalists operating in teh region have to survive while reporting from Arab lands. What would happen to them if they report a story that the violent jihadis might find counter to their cause?
A front-page New York Times report "Hamas's Insults to Jews Complicate Peace Effort" also featured in the International Herald Tribune ("Hamas ratchets up anti-Jewish rhetoric") highlights the serious issue of Palestinian indoctrination with detailed examples of Hamas incitement in children’s television shows and in mosques. They also offer insights into the challenges facing reports threatened with Arab violence if they do not tow the line. The article, by former Jerusalem bureau chief Steven Erlanger, quotes many of the hateful statements delivered by Hamas imams and media, such as "Jews are a people who cannot be trusted," and Jews are "the brothers of apes and pigs." He also reports on the incitement directed towards recruiting children into joining the "resistance," including a Mickey Mouse-like character and his bee and rabbit successors. Assud, the rabbit, proclaims: "We will liberate Al Aksa mosque from the Zionists' filth. We will liberate Jaffa and Acre." (Jaffa and Acre are cities within Israel’s pre-1967 borders.)
Interestingly, Erlanger wrapped up his tenure in Jerusalemimmediately before he wrote the articles and then quickly left for Paris. In his nearly four years as Jerusalem bureau chief, he gave scant attention to the key issue of Palestinian hate indoctrination against Israel and Jews. In fact, not even when he covered the "lost generation of Palestine: its most radical, most accepting of violence and most despairing" on March 12, 2007, did he discuss incitement as a factor in their radicalization. (In the 3,400-word feature, he devoted only one sentence to indoctrination, presenting it as an Israeli "claim.") Thus the obvious question: why now? Why did the Jerusalem bureau chief of the New York Times wait until he was no longer in the region to address this deep-rooted problem in Palestinian society? Did he not feel safe to report on incitement while he was working in the West Bank and Gaza Strip?
Considering how reporters from BBC and CNN and RAI have been kidnapped or beaten up for negative stories they dared write, it is little wonder that so few articles critical of the Palestinians are ever written. Unfortunately, journalistic cowardice leads to an ill-informed readership, hence the opinions of poorly educated folks like JohnnDoesBoys and J-Lo here. Then again, no amount of facts will ever sway these bigots, n'est-c pas mes amis?
WALT AND MEARSHEIMER ARE IDEALOGUES, NOT SCHOLARS
Their book attacking the power of the ficitiousu, all-powerful Jew lobby started from this premise, and they skewed their research to support this thesis. All contrary information was discarded. Worse still, and demonstrating that they are idealogues and not scholars, they falsified data to support their premise. This is immoral and should ahve resulted in tehir censure and removal from positions of academic authority. But, because Jew hatred is in fashion,instead they are lauded.
Falsification of quotes violates the basic requirement in scholarly writing that quotations be scrupulously accurate, presented in full context, and if at all possible taken from primary sources. Merely having a footnoted citation for some alleged quotation is not enough, especially in a controversial field where polemical writers may well be distorting the historical record for their own partisan purposes. Indeed, relying on such partisan sources for a fact or quotation is worse than giving no attribution at all, since the footnote that buttresses a false claim is itself a further deception.
Here are the falsified quotations:
As part of their effort to undermine Israel’s moral standing as an ally of the United States, Walt and Mearsheimer cite its allegedly oppressive and ruthless treatment of Arabs, and offer up as proof seemingly damaging statements by Israeli leaders. Thus they claim that the following statement by Israel’s first Prime Minister, David Ben-Gurion, proved that Israel never really accepted partition of the Palestine Mandate into separate Jewish and Arab states, and was always intent on expelling and dispossessing the Palestinians:
"After the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we shall abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine." (paper; book, p 93)
Did Ben-Gurion actually say this? Not quite. The above quote is supposedly from a meeting of the Jewish Agency Executive, the pre-state representative body of the Jews in the Palestine Mandate, and here’s what Ben-Gurion actually said according to the meeting protocol:
Mr. Ben-Gurion: "The starting point for a solution of the question of the Arabs in the Jewish State is, in his view, the need to prepare the ground for an Arab-Jewish agreement; he supports [the establishment of] the Jewish State [on a small part of Palestine], not because he is satisfied with part of the country, but on the basis of the assumption that after we constitute a large force following the establishment of the state – we will cancel the partition [of the country between Jews and Arabs] and we will expand throughout the Land of Israel."
Mr. Shapira [a JAE member]: "By force as well?"
Mr. Ben-Gurion: "[No]. Through mutual understanding and Jewish-Arab agreement. So long as we are weak and few the Arabs have neither the need nor the interest to conclude an alliance with us... And since the state is only a stage in the realization of Zionism and it must prepare the ground for our expansion throughout the whole country through Jewish-Arab agreement – we are obliged to run the state in such a way that will win us the friendship of the Arabs both within and outside the state." (from Efraim Karsh, “Falsifying the Record: Benny Morris, David Ben-Gurion and the ’Transfer’ Idea," Israel Affairs, V4, No. 2, Winter 1997, p52-53)
In other words, Ben-Gurion was stating exactly the opposite of what Walt and Mearsheimer would have their readers believe.
A$$ Clown Walt and Mearsheimer also added to the book new falsified quotations attributed to Menachem Begin, Moshe Dayan and others. Compounding matters is that Professors Walt and Mearsheimer and their publisher were warned about the faulty quotations in the original paper. All in all, this is therefore a grave violation of scholarly norms for which Walt and Mearsheimer should be held to account.
By the very fact he is making the settlements an issue and pushing hard for Israelis to katalog firm stop construction even in Jerusalem, he is going up against the desires of AIPAC, not to mention the majority of clear-thinking Israelis and Americans who know settlemetns are a red herring. In fact, his policy change from that of the previous administration goes against verbal understandings made between Pres Bush and PM Sharon to facilitate Israel's evacuation from Gaza. Clearly, President Obama does not seem to fear this all-powerful lobby.
Stephen M. Walt is the Robert and Renée Belfer professor of international relations at Harvard University.
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