Thursday, June 9, 2011 - 1:28 PM

Responding to E.J. Dionne, Andrew Sullivan wants to know at what point the U.S. political system became "decadent," and he offers up a number of possibilities: the Weiner scandal (E.J. Dionne's nomination), the odd notion that Sarah Palin could be considered a serious candidate for any office above a local Parks and Recreation board, or congressional "assent to torture" in 2006.
I'm glad he (and Dionne) raised the issue, but trying to pinpoint a single moment or cause is probably futile. Corruption and decadence don't occur all at once; it's a progressive disease with no clear tipping point. Part of it lies in the rise of the conservative movement post-Goldwater, when wealthy conservatives began to bankroll think tanks and media organs that were more interested in waging political warfare than getting facts right. Part of it is a pop-media culture that lets an ignorant buffoon like Rush Limbaugh or a bizarre whack-job like Glenn Beck become influential voices in our national debate. Part of it is the culture of non-accountability that is pervasive in official Washington, where the frauds that helped produce the financial crisis of 2007 barely get investigated, or where a deputy secretary of defense can play a key role in causing the Iraq debacle and then get rewarded by being named president of the World Bank, screw that up too, and bail out to a safe sinecure at a D.C. think tank. As L'affaire Weiner demonstrates, in today's America you're more likely to derail your career by sending some lewd and idiotic tweets than by sending thousands of your fellow citizens to their deaths (along with tens of thousands of Iraqis) in an unnecessary war.
What else is to blame? A political order that creates enormous incumbency advantages through gerrymandering. An electoral system that depends on an ocean of campaign contributions, thereby empowering special interest groups with deep pockets and focused agendas. A presidential election cycle that lasts for more than one-fourth of a term, thereby forcing candidates to spend too much time running for election and too little time actually governing. A Senate that spends more time preventing the appointment of needed judges and other government officials than it does debating the wisdom of going to war. And I could go on.
But let's not forget that the underlying cause of all this decadence is America's remarkable structural position in the international system and the wealth we accumulated over the past century or more. If we were facing an imminent threat of invasion, we'd be looking for our Lincolns, Marshalls, Roosevelts, and Eisenhowers, and we wouldn't be wasting our time with the Palin circus, which is nothing more than a "reality TV" version of real politics. Back when another Great Depression was looming in 2009, you actually saw the political system work, precisely because even head-in-the-sand politicos dimly understood that we were in Big Trouble and needed to do something. But once that immediate crisis was over, it was back to gridlock and grandstanding as usual.
What makes political decadence possible is the luxury of a secure international position, which makes it possible both to meddle in various global problems where our vital national interests are not really at stake (Afghanistan, Yemen, Libya, etc.) and permits Americans to think that it's perfectly OK to put climate-change deniers, religious fanatics, former bodybuilders turned actors, and other unqualified individuals in high office. But the most embarrassing aspect of all this is that we're surprised by the results.
But you can only do this for so long. To be sure, the United States has lots of fundamental strengths left, especially when compared with some other major powers. But unless we start electing and appointing more grown-ups to handle the public's business (and I might add, more realists to conduct our foreign and defense policies), we are going to squander those strengths through a series of mostly self-inflicted wounds.
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I have rather thought that up to 9/11 US politics were basically sane, in spite of the circus re Clinton's peccadillos, etc. 9/11 however seems to have unhinged the US public so that it was willing to swallow all the lies used to start the war in Iraq and the subsequent dishonesties of the Bush administration. I think that the trauma of having been attacked when everyone thought the US was immune to attack so addled the brains of many in the public that it paved the way, oddly enough, for the nonsense of the Tea Party and affines. The GOP has systematically lied ever since Iraq about all sort of matters, including domestic ones. For example, the idea that the US is over taxed, that the US government is "too large" and so on and so forth. Something changed after 9/11 and this allowed the "crazies" to emerge on the political scene. Bin Laden struck a crushing blow to the US ego and it has not been the same (or completely sane) ever since.
I'd compare Bush's reaction to 9/11 as choking. If you overreact, panic or move in unwise ways, that's choking, just like Labron. That needs to be an American Cliche, Bush choked on 9/11, panicked and couldn't take a good direction.
I felt very strongly that Clinton should have resigned immediately. The subsequent circus was fully predictable. But 911 was a moment when the cheese slipped off the national cracker. It was not just insanity on the right either. At the time this was more relevant because the right was running the show.
What about the 911 truther movement? That thoroughly infected the left. This I believe had very negative consequences. I think there were many interesting questions that should have been pursued after 911 regarding what the intelligence world knew. A good opposition should have forced that discussion. But it was not possible because the debate was taken over by totally lunatic conspiracy theories.
Like most other citizens of America's vassal states, I keep praying for a soft landing for the US, but I guess god isn't an American after all.
On this theme of America's slide into second-rate status, I would recommend the current series of interviews with Lawrence Wilkerson at The Real News. Depressing.
Clinton, Weiner... come on, why?
I just don't get the American prudery. You understand that your presidents/senators/whatever are human beings, right? They have personal lives outside of office. They make mistakes, like all humans do, but if it happens outside their responsibilities to their country, why should it affect their entire career?
"in today's America you're more likely to derail your career by sending some lewd and idiotic tweets than by sending thousands of your fellow citizens to their deaths" - very well said, Mr. Walt. Why should someone care about a politician's personal life if he does a good job? Or, on the other hand, if he does a bad job, why don't you just fire him for that reason instead of some hypocritical "scandal"?
You have actors, actresses, athletes, etc. getting into affairs, using drugs, showing as much genitalia to the public as they can, etc. yet if a politician does it privately, all hell breaks loose. Why does it matter what a politician does when he leaves office at the end of the day?
Look at more sensible countries. In Italy, France, even the PMs can go around womanizing, everybody understands that it is part of a successful man's life, and nobody but the American-influenced hyper-sensitive media pumps it up into a scandal.
If a congressman is stupid enough to send those photos on the internet, he is probably too stupid to be a congressman. It is not that he took lewd photos of himself, it is that he sent them to more or less strangers on the internet and expected there not to be a problem.
By the way, it is the very attitude you describe in the last paragraph that produce people like Strauss-Kahn who think of women as objects for their own pleasure, thinking they have a natural right to fondle and harass women. Even if the charges against him goes away, the man has a history of such behavior.
Dr. Walt, you seem to be getting more pessimistic when it comes to U.S. political system and, in some senses, future.
I'm glad more people are realizing its not the particular party or individual that's in office that's the problem, but the system itself. Seems to me it has become quite like a bipolar system, where politics is zero sum and a win for one party is a loss for the other. A lot of causes contribute to this, particularly the growing importance of national relative to local issues and the growing strength of the President relative to Congress. More immediate causes are such things as growing strength of Chairmans of Congressional Committees, the Cacuses, and the need for money to get reelected forcing one to tout party lines. Its kind of ironic how our country, which is interested in things for 24 hours at most, seems to be so against making the necessary changes of a system invented in the 1700's. The constitution is America's bible and for good reason, but it was made with a device to erect fundamental changes for a reason.
He seems to lay the blame on Republicans more or less.
NATET is right. Item number 1 on Walt's list is not just Republicans, but the entire conservative movement. I guess America would have been better off with the LBJ, Humphrey, McGovern, Carter direction of the Democratic party, huh?
Couple this with Walt's previous post with its sympathy for war crimes indictments of the Bush Administration and it is clear Walt has gone into some dubious territory.
I guess we can look forward to a guest column by Noam Chomsky sometime soon.
I miss the Walt of "The Origins of Alliances" an "Revolution and War" please send him back! I think the change happened when he left U Chicago for the K School. Must be something in the water there.
In economics and war. They teach there's no free lunch, EXCEPT TAX CUTS GENERATE FREE REVENUE. The Chicago School's economic theories have destroyed our economy. Carter, like Jesus bore our sins of deficit war spending and price freezes. Volcker raised rates to such a degree that it cost Carter the election, though the "Reagan Recovery" was the fruit of Carter's hard work and sacrifice. He also called for a more modest foreign policy. For that, he was hated.
The GOP has been captivated by charlatans. They are the party of faith, faith in Voodoo economics, faith in tax cuts for the rich, faith in the efficacy of American bombs. The Chicago school has hollowed out our economy. They are 100% wrong about tax rates, after all, THE TAX RATE IS THE DISCOUNT RATE FOR INVESTMENT AND HIRING! It doesn't stimulate anything except for excess the top and the loss of manufacturing.
In economics and war. They teach there's no free lunch, EXCEPT TAX CUTS GENERATE FREE REVENUE. The Chicago School's economic theories have destroyed our economy. Carter, like Jesus bore our sins of deficit war spending and price freezes. Volcker raised rates to such a degree that it cost Carter the election, though the "Reagan Recovery" was the fruit of Carter's hard work and sacrifice. He also called for a more modest foreign policy. For that, he was hated.
The GOP has been captivated by charlatans. They are the party of faith, faith in Voodoo economics, faith in tax cuts for the rich, faith in the efficacy of American bombs. The Chicago school has hollowed out our economy. They are 100% wrong about tax rates, after all, THE TAX RATE IS THE DISCOUNT RATE FOR INVESTMENT AND HIRING! It doesn't stimulate anything except for excess the top and the loss of manufacturing.
In economics and war. They teach there's no free lunch, except that they believe tax cuts generate free revenue. The Chicago School's economic theories have destroyed our economy. Carter, like Jesus bore our sins of deficit war spending and price freezes. Volcker raised rates to such a degree that it cost Carter the election, though the "Reagan Recovery" was the fruit of Carter's hard work and sacrifice. He also called for a more modest foreign policy. For that, he was hated.
The GOP has been captivated by charlatans. They are the party of faith, faith in Voodoo economics, faith in tax cuts for the rich, faith in the efficacy of American bombs. The Chicago school has hollowed out our economy. They are 100% wrong about tax rates, after all, THE TAX RATE IS THE DISCOUNT RATE FOR INVESTMENT AND HIRING! It doesn't stimulate anything except for excess the top and the loss of manufacturing.
Scott,
I was referring to the Political Science department at U Chicago (where Walt use to work) not the Economics department. the "Chicago School" of economic thought has nothing to do with other departments.
I hope you enjoyed your rant even though it completely off topic.
Dr. Walt, you seem to be getting more pessimistic when it comes to U.S. political system and, in some senses, future.
I'm glad more people are realizing its not the particular party or individual that's in office that's the problem, but the system itself. Seems to me it has become quite like a bipolar system, where politics is zero sum and a win for one party is a loss for the other. A lot of causes contribute to this, particularly the growing importance of national relative to local issues and the growing strength of the President relative to Congress. More immediate causes are such things as growing strength of Chairmans of Congressional Committees, the Cacuses, and the need for money to get reelected forcing one to tout party lines. Its kind of ironic how our country, which is interested in things for 24 hours at most, seems to be so against making the necessary changes of a system invented in the 1700's. The constitution is America's bible and for good reason, but it was made with a device to erect fundamental changes for a reason.
Excellent analysis, yet 9/11 remains as the untouchable-elephant.
was it 9/11 that lead to all the special interests taking over the government? was it because of 9/11 that all those wall street jerks came to rule the land? or empowered all the religious fanatics and so-called christians you have there running the republican party and the social issues?
power do corrupts.
was the pimple coming to a head. Bush ran to emergency room, and over-reacted. Sadly, the broken pustule has gotten infected and apparently there's no antibiotics, nor even soap to clean up the mess.
I could quibble about "former bodybuilders turned actors, and other unqualified individuals in high office."
Because Harvard's Kennedy School of Government has dumped plenty of arrogant nitwits into Washington. Is Arnold really worse than a Donald Rumsfeld or a Ben Bernanke or countless other Ivy League mediocrities coming imbued with the hubris and conceit necessary to wreck economies and initiate Wars to Nowhere?
But besides that, Ron Paul is noticeable for the way that he keeps the political trash off of his radar screen. And he is remarkably self-effacing and polite when he advocates for his positions.
Apart from his politics, you have to admire his style.
The idea that the United States is now more corrupt than it was in the past is absurd. What about the Teapot Dome Scandal, the early 20th century party machines, etc? You can find some sort corruption scandal for just about every administration in US history... and I'm sure we would know of a lot more from the past if the media had had the tools then that it has now.
And the idea that our politicians are worse behaved is also ridiculous. Think of how many of the leading political figures from our history were drunks with a penchant for loose women. Was it a sign of our "decadence" when the Texas Rangers had the highways closed so that LBJ could speed down the road with a ridiculous blood alcohol level? What about when Kennedy had one of his countless mistresses bringing him LSD? For that matter, perhaps we were "decadent" from the start, when our founders had to trail Ben Franklin to make sure he didn't spill secret information in the tavern. Franklin also admitted to a regrettable youthful habit of indulging in the "comfort" of prostitutes.
While it would definitely suit my worldview to decry the falling moral standards of America's leaders, it's simply not true that our current politicians are any worse than the ones we have had in the past. It's not our politicians morals that are declining... it is their ability to take their jobs as legislators as seriously as their political campaigns. Or, maybe it is just the American people's willingness to focus on tabloid stories about our politicians while quickly losing interest in understanding America's fiscal standing. But, then again, maybe none of that is new, either.
what has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun. (Eccl 1:9) I am not religious, but I think this verse encapsulates true wisdom.
Superb article - huge money, Bill Clinton, focused issue groups with no interest in cultural health of U.S., unrealistic and uneducated "leaders" and polity.
The journey through growth, flowering, and decay is natural to everything in our perspective. It's the way we think of processes and the three words themselves carry each its own emotional baggage. The point at which decadence was clearly in hand was, perhaps, when the habit of domestic borrowing become the norm. Borrowing against tomorrow in order to subsist today is indenting yourself to the lender and when the period of indenture becomes indefinite, and as extensive as it has become, you have what is effectively a slave culture. A slave culture is necessarily decadent since it is a majority controlled, fed, watered and motivated by a few for no reason but their own delectation. Looking at what is interestingly called the Arab Spring shows what stage the ME is approaching. The depressing prospect is that it may not flower because it is already being contaminated with US loans. If the spirit of the Egyptian and Tunisian protesters resists financial entrapment then there is hope. If not, the whole current sphere of US special interests will pass beneath the wheels of the Middle Kingdom. There is nothing individuals can do about it since their self-reliance has been eroded and vast numbers are collectively addicted to debt and prurient entertainment from which the potential withdrawal symptoms on a nearly national level are too horrendous to contemplate.
"A slave culture is necessarily decadent since it is a majority controlled" The slave culture isn't controlled by the majority, but the elites, the few. The poor but non-enslaved feel superior to the slaves, they relish their advanced status, while they toil to serve the slave master as well.
...Sullivan wants to know at what point...
...the U.S. political system became "decadent"...
“You can't use tact with a Congressman! A Congressman is a hog! You must take a stick and hit him on the snout!” - Henry Brooks Adams (American journalist, historian, academic and novelist, 1838-1918)
Seems to me it has become quite like a bipolar system, where politics is zero sum and a win for one party is a loss for the other. A lot of causes contribute to this, particularly the growing importance of national relative to local issues and the growing strength of the President relative to Congress. More immediate causes sázkové kanceláre are such things as growing strength of Chairmans of Congressional Committees, the Cacuses, and the need for money to get reelected forcing one to tout party lines. Its kind of ironic how our country, which is interested in things for 24 hours at most.It's not our politicians morals that are declining... it is their ability to take their jobs as legislators as seriously as their political campaigns. Or, maybe it is just the American people's willingness to focus on tabloid stories about our politicians while quickly losing interest in understanding America's fiscal standing.
Stephen M. Walt is the Robert and Renée Belfer professor of international relations at Harvard University.
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