Put differently, why is it in the U.S. national interest to keep Gazans under a punishing blockade?...

...Or to be even more precise: How does it make Americans safer or more prosperous or more influential around the world to be colluding in the collective punishment of the Gazan population?

Israel has offered the use of its ports to every flotilla, so they can inspect the cargo and then pass it through land crossings to Gaza. Point being, our interest is that Hamas not have unfettered access to weapons, not to keep the goods from getting into Gaza.

To call Israel's insistence that they inspect the cargo a "punishing blockade" or "collective punishment" is crude propaganda. I know, big shocker considering the source.

of the basics than most.

Why does Israel have a blockade around Gaza? Has the professor really blanked on recent history?

Navy intercepts ship with Iranian arms bound for Hamas
Jerusalem Post
By YAAKOV KATZ
03/15/2011 12:25

Cargo vessel flying Liberian flag found with Chinese-made anti-ship missiles, as well as instruction manuals in Farsi.

The Israel Navy seized a cargo vessel early Tuesday morning in the Mediterranean Sea that was carrying advanced weaponry, including anti-ship missiles that could alter the balance of power in the region.

Israel believes the weaponry originated in Iran and was destined for Hamas and other terrorist groups in the Gaza Strip.

In an operation called “Iron Law,” Israeli navy missile boats approached the Victoria cargo ship late Monday night as it passed some 320 km. off Israel’s coast. One of the vessels reached the captain on the radio and asked for permission to board.

Once he gave permission and began lowering a ladder, a number of speedboats carrying several teams of commandos from Flotilla 13 – known as the Shayetet – closed in.

The commandos did not encounter resistance when boarding the ship and were given the cargo certificates indicating that 39 containers had been loaded in the Syrian port of Latakia.

Two weeks earlier, a pair of Iranian warships had docked at the same port – possibly carrying weapons. Four of the containers, found with heavy locks, were slated to be unloaded in the port of Alexandria in Egypt.

The ship left Latakia and sailed to the port of Mersin in Turkey – likely a ploy meant to deflect attention from the ship and its cargo. The IDF stressed that it believed that neither Egypt nor Turkey was involved in the arms shipment.

According to the certificates, the containers were supposed to be carrying cotton and lentils, but when the commandos pulled out the first row of sacks they found crates of mortar shells and advanced anti-ship missiles.

The total shipment was estimated to weigh about 50 tons – similar to the cache discovered aboard the Karine A arms ship stopped by the navy in 2002.

The deputy commander of the navy, V.- Adm. Rani Ben-Yehuda, said the commandos had found two C-704 anti-ship missiles inside one of the containers they inspected aboard the Victoria, which was flying a Liberian flag.

The ship is owned by a German company, but was being operated by a French company.

The Foreign Ministry notified all three countries of the seizure.

According to Ben-Yehuda, the Chinesemade anti-ship missiles could have threatened Israeli sea-based strategic installations “like gas drilling stations” as well as naval vessels, and even the Ashdod Port.

“This shipment was of strategic importance,” he said.

Ben-Yehuda added he did not know if the Iranian ships brought the weaponry that was loaded onto the Victoria, but that the timing raised serious questions. “This needs to be considered,” he said.

The C-704 has a range of 35 km. and carries a warhead with 130 kg. of explosives.

The commandos found booklets explaining how to use the missile in Farsi – further proof that the missiles originated in Iran.

In addition to the anti-ship missiles, the commandos also discovered 60-mm. and 120-mm. mortar shells.

The missiles use advanced radar to acquire their targets. In 2006, a Chinese-made C- 802 missile struck the INS Hanit off the coast of Beirut, killing four Israeli sailors.

“The missile is made in China and it is in the possession of the Iranians, and this adds to suspicions that it came from Iran,” Ben- Yehuda said. “This missile can threaten strategic installations near the coast and navy vessels that operate at sea.”

The IDF released pictures showing mortar shells inside crates, as well as the C-704 missiles with the word “Nasr” written on them.

Nasr is what Iran calls the missile.

In November 2009, the Israel Navy seized the Francop cargo ship, which was carrying 500 tons of weaponry from Iran to Hezbollah in Lebanon – including Katyusha rockets and grenades.

At the time, IDF officers said the amount was enough to sustain Hezbollah for several weeks of war.

The Israeli media is "ramping up" its campaign of falsification against the flotilla these days:

"On Tuesday, Israeli newspapers were filled with reports from unnamed military officials, charging that sacks of chemicals, including sulfuric acid, had been loaded onto flotilla vessels with the aim of using the materials against Israeli soldiers." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israel-ramps-up-campaign-against-gaza-aid-flotilla/2011/06/28/AG59dbpH_story.html)

But it seems that the Israeli PR machine and its subsidiaries in the USA are so bad at it they should stop. Read Alex Fishman's in Israeli paper Yediot Aharonot today, 29 June, who said all the IDF's lies about the flotilla were part of many assumptions:

"But when a working assumption of that sort is turned into a fact by the Israeli public relations machine that is liable to prove to be a boomerang that couldc ast Israel as unreliable." (http://www.scribd.com/doc/58955603/Yediot-Jun29-11-Alex-Fishman-IDF-Lied-About-Flotilla)

The massive blunders of the Isareli government, including the involvement in a YouTube hoax by one of its PR agents (http://is.gd/MGpYAM), make you jump to the question of Why on earth didn't Israel stick to what it is good at, i.e the sabotage of the rest of the flotilla they way it damaged one of them the other day(http://is.gd/4G5iX3)???

“The State of Israel, with all its army, security services and everything it has is going against a bunch of 20 non-governmental organizations,” Feiler added. “Really, it’s ridiculous.”

Really?

Or that HAMAS doesn't use its rockets to attack Israeli civilians like the school bus HAMAS attacked with a laser-guided anti-tank missile?

Or that last year's flotilla was peaceful? We saw the videos of the Marvi Mammara last year. Steel pipes, knives, IDF soldiers getting thrown overboard and video declarations by the passengers in hopes of becomming Shaheeds.

Yeah, real peaceful. So no, I wouldn't put it past them to take chemicals on board this year.

It is Israeli commentators, politicians and activists (there is a bunch of Israeli ones on this flotilla).

It's the Israeli defence minister, who I assume gets his information from his security and intelligence chiefs, not from the editorials of Commentary magazine and the baptists who want Jesus back again to cleanse the holy land of Jews.

It is hilarious to see how some pro-Israel robots go the extra mile to prove their loyalty but find themselves isolated in their childish stubbornness and lack of information.

"[Israeli Defence Minister Ehud]"Barak told Channel 2 news on Wednesday night that while he has directed the Israel Defense Forces to stop the flotilla by force, if necessary, he believed that while pockets of resistance were possible the flotilla participants this year would be less violent than last year's."

(http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/barak-plays-down-israeli-worries-about-gaza-flotilla-1.370377)

"The activists dismissed Israel's demands that any aid for Gaza be delivered through its crossing points and inspected by its military."
So they want Israel to allow any cargo into Gaza, which would mean thousands more rockets on Israeli civilians. What sane government would allow this?

The main point is quite clear, I think. That Israel has shoved its hated inferiors into a concentration camp like area where it hopes to abuse and crush them and their spirit by cutting off food and supplies, etc., etc., to them at its whim. Like most oppressive entities, it pretends it is the victim, not those whom it is in fact victimizing. PS The pain inflicted by Palestinians on Israelis is trivial (virtually nothing) compared to what Israel has inflicted upon them.

Sigh, American map skills have truly atrophied.

You do realize that Gaza is roughly 2x the size of Manhattan with a roughly equal population?

And the population growth in Gaza, doesn't come from Palestinians being shoved on to this coastal zone, but from new births, and an extention of Palestinians' life-spans.

Hardly what one would call a 'Concentration Camp' like experience, except by those who are either ignorant or just a plain Jew hater.

http://www.alternet.org/world/120197/gaza_is_a_concentration_camp__/

Oh please. You seem unaware that Gaza does not have skyscrapers nor one tiny sliver of the wealth of Manhattan. Such a comparison is well.....stupid. And, please, let's get over equating criticism of Israel with hating Jews. That would be like criticism of the Nazi regime=hatred of Germans. Grow up, please.

wealth that created a concentration camp.

Silly me. I guess your definition and the rest of the world's of what actually occurs in a concentration camp differs.

So, you want to sterilize them too? My, oh my, how you seek your final solutions. Boy, you don't that Teutonic efficiency everywhere.

No Scott, I've never called for the sterilization of anyone. Don't put your hateful fantasies in my mind. It doesn't work.

No, my point to Eller, was that Gaza, is not a concentration sized entity as he claimed, noting that the land mass is 2x the area of Manhattan, which has a roughly equal population, and yet not only survives, but thrives.

Eller went on to claim that Gaza was still a concentration camp, because unlike New York City, Gaza was poor.

Unfortunately, for most intelligent people, poverty doesn't make a concentration camp. Specifically, it doesn't make Gaza a Nazi concentration camp, which has been repeatedly alluded to.

People were sent to concentration camps by the Nazi's to die, or more specifically, to be tortured, starved, and murdered.

None of that has occurred in Gaza. More than that, Gaza has actually grown in terms of population. By contrast, the Nazi's murdered over 1.0 million Jewish children during their reign.

But Gazans do remain in poverty. To that end, one must ask what is occuring in Gaza that creates such a situation. On the one hand, the poverty in Gaza is not terrible, especially when compared to the Arab states of the Middle East. But obviously there are other restrictions on Gaza's economy, and that is the war that HAMAS continues to fight.

The 'solution' to that, is not genocide as you would fantasize about, but peace. This decision, to end their war, and come to the negotiating table, rests with HAMAS' leadership. To date, they continue to reject such a move.

If that's the case, then the poverty of Gazans, rests with its own politicial leadership.

The world is not fooled by your silly indeed specious Zionist arguments to exonerate Israel from its brutal treatment of the Palestinians. So much of what you say is simply not true that it would be beyond tedious to attempt to refute you point by point. Let it suffice to note that the world doesn't agree with the Zionist position at all. And for good reason since the Zionist position cannot be defended. So go on with your Zionist fantasies; just know that the world hates Israel with a passion, just as most of the world hated the Nazis.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/gaza_brutality.html

Perhaps our Zionist friends here can find some evidence of UN praise for Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. I'd be happy to see it.

Walt relies on his own belief, when in fact there is no crisis in Gaza. Goods are plentiful. According to data provided by Mohammed Skaik, the Trade Policy Specialist with PalTrade, who is responsible for all technical issues surrounding Gaza imports and export:

"During the last export season (Nov 2010 to May 2011), a total of 290 truckloads, including 210 truckloads (397 tons) of strawberry, 74 truckloads (10,668,520 stems) of cut-flower, 03 truckloads (06 tons) of sweet pepper and 03 truckload of cherry tomato (6.7 tons) were exported via the Kerem Shalom crossing. (Weekly Analysis-Gaza Crossing Data from 19-25 June 2011)."

If the Pals stopped trying to import weapons to kill Jews, then there would be no need for the rather mild security restructions now in place. We in the USA or any other sane country would do the same thing if it was Canada raining missiles down on us! Actually, we'd take far harsher action...just ask the Iraqis or Afghans. You would think that after the Israelis have confiscated three ships so far loaded with Iranian and Syrian arms the world would wake up...but there is no end to the world's willful blindness when it comes to the true intentions of the jihadis.

...and many more dealt with them. Apparently their stink did not get in the way of business. You need to educate yourself before spewin unsupported statements. For instance, most of Europe, including the Brits and France, supported Hitler at first, as a bulwark against communism. So did the USA. During the war, the good old Swedes sold the Nazis arms, including their wonderful AA guns. Twenty thousand Norwegians volunteered to join the Nazis after their PM Quisling9Yeah, that guy) allied with the Nazis. Many Latin American countries, such as Argentina and Parguay were allied with Germany, only declaring war on Germany (in the ultimate hypocritical act) in the final days of the war to gain political captial with the victorious Allies. The list goes on and on. If you were around then I am sure would also be a supporter of Nazi Germany, either due to being a Quisling or a True Believer!

The Nazis had more allies than Israel does.

I am pretty sure Greece's problem is less about derivities (like the US financial crisis), "Naked Short" (I am pretty sure you misued that term somewhat, though you got the jist of what it meant), than straight up government bonds and the Greek inability to pay up on its own as well as its future ability to borrow at reasonable intrest rates off the bond market.

Professor, may I suggest you audit an introductory course on International Economics from your local buisness school. It will probably give you enough info to be dangerous.

It's the derivatives written on the Greek debt that is the problem, the actual debt is minuscule relative to the EU, even all the PIGS combined aren't anything the EU couldn't absorb. That said, it could cause defections and destruction of the common currency

Oh come on. Let Acedemics have their areas of intrest/hobby horses.

The Jewish Settlements in Gaza were supposedly economically productive before they were turned over to the PA. What have the Palistinians done with them since they got them?

I'll work on the per-capita basis that Ellerveira does to make it easier. Numbers are from the World Bank, fiscal 2009 numbers.

Gaza: $2,900
1. Egypt: $2,270
2. Jordan: $4,216
3. Syria: $2,474
4. Yemen: $1,118
5. Sudan: $1,194
6. Tunisia: $3,792
7. Algeria: $4,029
8. Morocco:$2,811
9. Iraq: $2,090
10. Iran: $4,540

On the relatively high-end, you have
11. Libya: $9,714
12. Lebanon: $8,175

Now, for the oil-producing Gulf states you have as follows:

13. Saudia Arabia: $14,799
14. Oman: $16,207
15. Bahrain $26,021
16. UAE $50,070
17. Kuwait: $58,272, though that figure is for fiscal 2008
18. Qatar: $69,754

Essentially Eller, Gaza falls in the normal range for the majority of Arab-League states, the exceptions as we can clearly see, are the oil-producing gulf states, and even here, oil wealth is hoarded by the ruling class, so there may be a swing on actual dollars in real terms.

Fact is, there is something called anti-Semitism, that is a long-held hatred in the world, something that is so virulent, you don't even need to have Jews around to experience it. The Nazis by contrast, never faced such ethnic hatred as the Jews have, indeed, we were on the receiving end of the Nazi's hatred. Nice of you though, to try to compare Israel today, with the real genocidal attrocities of the Nazis. Totally false, but nice nevertheless.

Of course, such hatred has found a home in the Arab and Muslim world, as seen in the treatment of Jews there. I don't recall ever reading about how Germans slaughtered innocent non-German children to use their blood to bake pastries. I did see such claims made by a Saudi professor a few years ago. His libel was published in a two-part news story in the Saudi national press. I guess that's what passes for silly with you.

the ability to move goods across the border would be pretty important relative to trade, don't cha think?

the ability to move goods across the border would be pretty important relative to trade, don't cha think?

they bulldozed everything before they left.

As I noted before the world doesn't buy the Zionist arguments at all. Of course they are popular with Zionists and their mignons. The world hates Israel for its behavior. Are you unaware of that?

They had a productive green house vegetable industry. But it relied on subsidized water. After Israel dismantled those settlements that water source was cut off. So of course, the Palestinians couldn't continue those facilities. Good propaganda point if one ignores the underlying water issue. The fact is that Israel abandoned those settlements because they cost more than they were worth.

They had a productive green house vegetable industry. But it relied on subsidized water. After Israel dismantled those settlements that water source was cut off. So of course, the Palestinians couldn't continue those facilities. Good propaganda point if one ignores the underlying water issue. The fact is that Israel abandoned those settlements because they cost more than they were worth.