"I suspect you *can't*"

One of the problems with political science and the internet. You find what looks like an interesting review by Levitsky in the journal Perspectives on Politics only to find that it's $30 for the article and your college doesn't have a subscription for that part of JSTOR.

issue off the front page.

After all, that's all this hysteria is really about anyway.

>> The Jerusalem question, Jew settlements, the terrorist groups stated policy of destruction of Israel and no legitimacy of Israel by neighboring countries and so on.

Not to mention thne question fo ethnic lceasing, illegal settlements, mas murder, home demolitions and military occupation.

>> These issues are in more than half a century in making and Osama, like his predecessors have failed.

Israel has seen to it that it has failed.

>> The Iranian issue is at hand and Iran posses threat to Israel with its stated policy that doesn't recognize Israel.

No country is under anyobligation to recognize Israel. In fact, Iran has every right not to, if it so chooses. That certainyl doesn't make Iran a threat.

Then Israel's existence is based on the rejection of peace.

Isn't the true name then of Israel's real threat a "demographic" one?

See:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/03/05/iran_is_the_great_distraction

Israel cannot rush into agreements when democracy is nonexistent in the region. Before a settlement is made with the Palestinians, Islam will need to enter and then exit successfully, a period of enlightenment and acceptance of Jews in the region, under their own rule, control, destiny, you name it.

Which is why both the US and Israeli intelligence agencies agree Iran hasn't even decided to peoduce a nuke.

That certainly would not be the consensus if there had been any such test.

>> Israel cannot rush into agreements when democracy is nonexistent in the region.

Oh really? So why did Israel make peace agreements with Egypt and Jordan? Ooops!!

>> Before a settlement is made with the Palestinians, Islam will need to enter and then exit successfully, a period of enlightenment and acceptance of Jews in the region, under their own rule, control, destiny, you name it.

Sadly, Israel will be a distant memory by then.

The German daily reported that Iran, together with North Korea, undertook nuclear tests in 2010. The world knows categorically that tests were carried out by NK. Apparently German intelligence knows who was present at those tests. Iran is preparing all the pieces for a nuclear device, and when they eventually come out, it won't be just one, they will say they have tens, if not hundreds of them. Once all the pieces are in place it does not take long to assemble the WMD, so we are lead to believe as I have never assembled one myself or have been faintly involved in this field, and neither have you Neoleft who tells us what Israeli intelligence is thinking and what US intelligence thinks as well. At least someone know what is going on and his name is "Deep Throat 2", alias Neoleft. Anyone reading these posts understand what an extreme, uncompromising, blind to the truth soldier NEOLEFT is. If you represent and are typical of anyone Neoleft, I hope it is not the Palestinians. Surely they cannot be so far removed from reality and so extreme? Maybe they are.

Israel took chances and made peace with Egypt and Jordan hoping that if the respective dictators were one day overthrown by their own people, the geography would offer some level of protection, and only for a while. The peace agreement between Israel and Egypt requires that the Sinai be demilitarized. The Jordan Valley offers Israel significant protection from the East. Peace with the Palestinians has Israel and Palestinian living side by side.
There would be no physical barrier to protect Israel from Islamic extremists who would invite Iran into their front garden. It is the Palestinians who want all Jews out of Judea and Samaria. It is the Palestinians and Iranians and most of the Islamic world who reject other religions. In Saudi Arabia there are roads which clearly state "Muslims Only". Those accusing Israel of apartheid have the story all wrong. The freedom of religion currently open to all in Jerusalem is the best it will ever be. Israel accepts other religions. The Muslims and the Palestinians don't, which makes me wonder why Palestinian Christians feel their future is with the Muslims. Huh? Do you know how badly Palestinian Christians have been treated by the Palestinian brothers? Does not make for pleasant reading.

>> The German daily reported that Iran, together with North Korea, undertook nuclear tests in 2010.

No tnever happened. The North Koreans conducted a test without any Iranian involvement. If there were any truth to this claim, then it would have made it into the 2010 NIE and the Mossad would not be agreeing with the 16 US intelligence agencies that Iran is not prusuing nuclear weapons

>> Apparently German intelligence knows who was present at those tests.

If that were true, then they woudl have made those findings available to the US and Israeli intelligence community.

>> Iran is preparing all the pieces for a nuclear device, and when they eventually come out, it won't be just one, they will say they have tens, if not hundreds of them.

Rubbish. There is no evidence Iran are doing so. In fact, Leon Panetta is adamne the Iranians haven/t even decided to try.

>> neither have you Neoleft who tells us what Israeli intelligence is thinking and what US intelligence thinks as well.

I don't need to tell you what the Israeli or US intelligence is thinking. All we need to knwo is that they have fond and what they are conclusing from their investigations.

>> Anyone reading these posts understand what an extreme, uncompromising, blind to the truth soldier NEOLEFT is.

Translation. NEOLEFT is beinging up facts and Zionist nut jobs are having trouble peddling their BS.

Ignoring facts and evindence is what Zionists call realism.

>> Israel took chances and made peace with Egypt and Jordan hoping that if the respective dictators were one day overthrown by their own people, the geography would offer some level of protection, and only for a while.

On the contrary. Israle agreed to these treaties pecisely becasue they were colntrolled by US sponsored dictatorships. As soon as Egypt signed the treaty with Israel, the annual multi billion dollar bribes came forth from Washington.

>> The peace agreement between Israel and Egypt requires that the Sinai be demilitarized.

It also required that Israel not build settlements and withdraw from the OT, but as is always the case, treaties with Israel means Israel gets to violate them while insisting the other party adhere to it to the letter.

>> The Jordan Valley offers Israel significant protection from the East.

False. The Jordan Valley offers Israel the ability to prevent a viable Palestinian state from emerging. The traty with Jordan means there is no need for protection from the East.

>> Peace with the Palestinians has Israel and Palestinian living side by side.

And Israel has sabotaged this and make such an outcome impossible.

>> There would be no physical barrier to protect Israel from Islamic extremists who would invite Iran into their front garden.

Rubbish. Iran have no presence outside of Iran.

>> It is the Palestinians who want all Jews out of Judea and Samaria.

False. They want all the Israelis out of the West Bank.

>> It is the Palestinians and Iranians and most of the Islamic world who reject other religions.

That woudl explain why Iran has the secodn biggest Jewish community in the region outside of Israel.

>>In Saudi Arabia there are roads which clearly state "Muslims Only".

How ironic it is terefore, that Saudi Arabia and Israel stood shoudler to shoulder in suport fo Mubarak during his overthrow?

ISrale is an apartheid state. Even Israelis themselves aknoedge that Israel is an apartheid state.

A Sewdish physicist found out that in 2010 there were two nuclear tests done in the territory of North Korea. he then comes to the conclusion that if these tests were included in the North Korean nuclear programme they wouldn’t hide this fact.

From this, he concludes that this point to Iranian involvement. How Iran is involved, no explanation is given.

Most telling of course it the conclusion to the said article:

"For the time being, this theory is not yet officially confirmed, besides also his colleagues emphasize that these arguments are not enough to make conclusions'.

In other words, the Swedish physicist Lars-Erik de Geer makes a conclusion without any evidence to support it.

Haaretz has already reported that the time is fast approaching when the US will be sick of the relatinship and end it.

>> As long as the Palestinians refuse to recognize the Jewish nature of Israel, and the need to maintain it, they impose an existential threat to Israel.

Absolute rubbish. The PLO recognized Israel 20 years ago, when Israel only asked to be recgonized and nothing changed

The demand to be recognized as a Jewish state only surfaced after Netenyahu took office. It's nothing more than a cynicla ploy by Bibbi to move the goalposts.

>> I would be refreshing to see Walt calling on the Palestinians to accept that Jews have rights as well.

It would be just as intersting to ear Bibbi recognizing the state of Palestine, as opposed to trying to defeat it at the UN.

It is time that you, NEOLEFT, begin to understand that extremists do not represent the majority of the people. This is true in Israel. This is also true in Egypt, Turkey and even Iran. You quote from Haaretz, the left leaning newspaper in Israel. Their distribution is very small and the readership has been shrinking from year to year. Truth be told, they do not reflect the true feelings of the average Israeli. You also might try to understand that Israeli's want peace more than anyone else in the region. That is why they went along with the Oslo crowd. The conservative right in Israel at the time was very much against the parameters of Oslo because of the lack of recognition of Jewish interests. They also saw the trap Arafat was lying. We now see the results of that trap in the BDS movement. Israel, being the democracy that it is, allowed Rabin to pursued far too many to support the Oslo agreements in the Knesset, the Israeli Parliament. In fact many of the members of the ultra religious party Shas, abstained from that vote. The vote passed by one. The members of Shas now understand that they made an historical mistake. It is also clear that the secular Israeli's who negotiated at Oslo made an even greater mistake by not insisting on the recognition of Israel as the Jewish State. They most probably tried, Arafat rejected and they moved on. You don’t just move on when confronted with such a rejection. Israel should have walked away from Oslo at that point.

>> It is time that you, NEOLEFT, begin to understand that extremists do not represent the majority of the people. This is true in Israel.

Netenyhau's coalition is made up of extremists, like Liberman's party and Shas. Bibbi was elected on a platform opposing the peace process and a two state solution. Bibbi is also pro settlements.

You don't get more extremiost than that.

>> You quote from Haaretz, the left leaning newspaper in Israel. Their distribution is very small and the readership has been shrinking from year to year.

That's not a rebuttal or an argument. Fox news repeatedly achieves the highest ratings in the US but not even fans of the show pretend that it is a source of facts.

>> You also might try to understand that Israeli's want peace more than anyone else in the region.

No they want security not peace. They have demonstrated that they do not want to pay the price for peace.

Even Time ran a story last year that Israelis don't care about peace one way or the other.

"Why Israel Doesn't Care About Peace"
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2015789,00.html

>> The conservative right in Israel at the time was very much against the parameters of Oslo because of the lack of recognition of Jewish interests.

Jewish interests and ini land theft, illegal settlements, stealing resources etc yes.

>> They also saw the trap Arafat was lying.

Oh really? I guess we should all ignore the fact that Netenyahu boasted on video about sabotaging Olso then?

Oslo was nothing more tha a recipe for continued domination of Palestiniasn by Israel.

>> We now see the results of that trap in the BDS movement.

BDS is the consequence fo Israel refusing to uphold agreements like Olso and UNSC242.

>> Israel, being the democracy that it is, allowed Rabin to pursued far too many to support the Oslo agreements in the Knesset, the Israeli Parliament.

>> In fact many of the members of the ultra religious party Shas, abstained from that vote.

The ones who are in pwer today yes.

>> It is also clear that the secular Israeli's who negotiated at Oslo made an even greater mistake by not insisting on the recognition of Israel as the Jewish State.

Rubbish. That demand was not even being discussed. It was never even mentioned until Netenyahu came to power in 2009.

They most probably tried, Arafat rejected and they moved on.

Actually, they probabyl didn't, or you would have evidence to support your conspiracy theory.

>> Israel should have walked away from Oslo at that point.

Actually, Arafat should have, because it was an entirely one sided deal.

It must say, it makes me laugh how you claim Isralis want peace while yourself opposing the peace process. It's hardly surprising though. As Miko Peled, son of Genral Matti Peled said, Zionism is incompatible with peace.

Then explain why Israel has steadily expanded its settlement of the West Bank? And explain how the lack of "recognition" on the part of Palestinians represents an "existential threat" to Israel? Seems like whenever Israel wants to take something belonging to others, it uses this existential threat justification.

THEOTHERSIDE wrote:

"I [sic] would be refreshing to see Walt calling on the Palestinians to accept that Jews have rights as well."

Actually that's a very interesting observation. We *don't* really see much talk about rights in this, do we? Aside perhaps from talking about basic human rights.

Would be refreshing—and very illuminating—to see each side lay out what it thinks its political rights are as I suspect neither would garner all that much sympathy:

E.g., the right to an ethno-nationalist state, and to discriminate on an ethno-racial basis to maintain same, and etc. and so forth. On the Palestinian side ... the right to forbid any jews to live in any Palestinian state? On the Israeli side ... the right to station troops permanently in the Palestinian state?

Let the sides lay out in the open what they are fighting for, and I suspect the world would turn away from the laundry list of both to a large degree.