Walt, if you want to know the context of this problem, you can start with The Great Game. In late 19th century, Russia and the British empire were actively working in that region. British Empire was more focused on Tibet. Russia was more focused on Xinjiang. Russia toke a large swath of land from China by a series of treaties from 1860s (i.e. the Second Opium War) on. Out of that 1.53 million sq. km land, abut 0.53 million came out of Xinjiang region.

Historically Xinjiang was ruled by Mongols, until mid-18th century, when the Qing Dynasty wiped out the entire Mongol tribe, killing about 250,000, for their repeated rebellions. Xinjiang is divided by Tianshan Mountains, into south and north parts. The Uyghurs are mainly in the south, around the Tarim Basin. The same area is also resided by other ethnic groups, such as Tajik, Uzbek, Tibetans etc.

The core of the problem is not religious (for starter, many of those 'Muslims" are drinkers). It is the fact that Southern Xinjiang is very remote and poor.

Russia once called itself the Union of Soviet… but China even under Soviet influence never went so far as to call itself the Union of East Asian States.

The U and S in the USA has never been an ethnic issue, although Roger Williams of Rhode Island had been a bit more fervent about separation of church and state.

Lenin and Stalin had the belief in “self-determination” based on ethnicity (yes, an enigmatic or idiosyncratic blend with authoritarianism); this is the idea behind “Union”, not because of immigration or in spite of expansion.

China under Soviet influence still has autonomous regions.

China’s ethnic policy is good and has its pragmatism. In other less troublesome areas the slogan of autonomy still applies. Certainly, with economic rise and expansion of the tertiary industries, the veneer of autonomy will diminish naturally and slowly, leading to assimilation gradually.

In more troublesome areas, the veneer of autonomy has to be thinner still.

Should China follow the USA’s footstep in promoting assimilation by coercive means, as a part of the American Civil Rights movement? Here I refer to coercive busing of black children to mix with white children against the wishes of 85% of black parents. For 40 hours a week, black children has to face cultural dilution, with another 10 hours a week on a school bus and millions of diesel fuel wasted.

And also the US Senate’s rejection of the Akaka Bill of 2000 that could have granted the Hawaiians cultural autonomy. The US Senate cited the American “tradition of assimilation” in rejecting the Bill. China certainly has the more valid tradition of assimilation.

I do believe in the absolute objective virtues of assimilation and the irrelevance of any ethnic culture or identity to happiness of human beings. However, I also knowledge the subjective fervor of most ethnic parents about preserving an ethnic culture vicariously through their offspring. Therefore, I do believe in multiculturalism as a milestone toward the necessary assimilation for any country. But multiculturalism can only be a milestone not the end. The crux is that, in order for multiculturalism to serve as the milestone, it is better advertised as the end, otherwise (forthrightness) would lead to confrontation. Such is the real meaning of "autonomous regions" in China. No logical rigor can or should apply to these "autonomous regions".

I think China has the best and most pragmatic minority policy.

There are many ethnic celebrities in China and they don’t have to change their names to Li or Chen. Many flaunt their ethnicity in a way that the Chinese public accepts. The theme is “diverse but united”, with the fanfare of ethnic dances and dresses. This is very effective. This is pragmatism, less confrontational assimilation.

China will have little problem achieving assimilation; it is never a “union of” and its entire people will be simply Chinese, by the name of Han or otherwise. China has little racial division and the Hans are tolerant and in great majority.

One should step back and look at the bigger sociological environment in China.

Politics involving ethnic minorities is never objective; it revolves around the transient and subjective feelings of many ethnic parents and their vicarious pipedream to use their offspring as the vehicle to preserve a culture, not the happiness of being socially included, especially in courtship and marriage.

Did those Vietnamese monks took snapshots, and told the press before their immolation? The mortality rate on the Tibetan "immolation" is less than 50%. The same thing for Vietnamese monk was almost 100%, if anyone survived.

Charlie Rose had a table ful of experts on China last night. Talking about whether China could keep up the momentum. Wages rising etc

Ot
Noticing on all and I generally do not say ALL MSM outlets this week when they are talking about the massacre of 16 individuals 9 of them children in Afghanistan they are always focused on the soldier who allegedly committed the massacre. They start by saying “there are no excuses” for the massacre..and then they spend the next 5 minutes bringing attention to numerous deployments, his character before he was in the service, dissapointments in his life etc etc. They all seem to be helping this man build an insanity plea. NEVER EVER AND I MEAN NEVER EVER HAS ONE MSM HOST OR GUEST FOCUSED ON WHO THE PEOPLE AND THE CHILDREN ARE THAT THIS MAN ALLEGEDLY MASSACRED. NOT ONCE HAVE I HEARD A HOST OR GUEST FOCUS ON THE PEOPLE IN AFGHANISTAN WHO WERE KILLED. No pictures of the children massacred. Nothing TELLING. Not MSNBC’s Al Sharpton, not Ed Schultz, not Mika of Joe Scarborough, not Diane Rehm, not CNN, not Fox etc. NO one. Talk about dehumanization in our military….dehumanization in the US media. Focus on the children killed, the adults, no names. Total absence

Anyone else who watches, listens, reads MSM outlets noticing this?

Force, Secret Police, Repression, and simply killing off anyone who says boo is infinitely more effective than democracy at keeping ANY population compliant.

That's how empires were kept together for over 3000 years...

As the perfesser writes, "I know very little about this issue [in Xinjiang], but I found this brief commentary by Arabinda Acharya and Wang Zhihao (of Singapore) to be rather eye-opening ... . [They write:] 'The Xinjiang situation is ... characterized by a lack of facts.' " Don't need no stinkin' facts to open the professorial eye, and tell us masterfully about the Walt ignorance. Bless him.

During a conversation on Chris Matthews Hardball last evening about oil prices and production Congressman Markey closing statement was blaming Iran for rising prices. He said “Iran as they rattle the markets” Essentially blaming Israel’s endless saber rattling and threat to attack on Iran and oil speculation taking place as a result on Iran. Markey kissed Israel right on the ass last night.

On MSNBC’s Rachel Maddows she did a one hour show on non proliferation and Mexico agreeing to take out all nuclear weapons grade fuel. Good show. But when Rachel and her team put up a map of countries with nuclear weapons Russia, China, US, France, UK, Israel, India, Pakistan and NOrth Korea. She and her team chose to put up Iran as having nuclear weapons on the map. Talk about irresponsible, inaccurate and dangerous. Fueling the endlessly repeated and unproven claims that Iran not only has a nuclear weapons plan but they have nuclear weapons. Rachel Maddow needs to be pounded for doing this. Shameful and dangerous

The West is too dogmatic on the issue of freedom and human rights.
Freedom does not predict doing what is objectively the best; rights sometimes should yield to doing what is right, as considered by the progressive elite.

A few orchestrated self-immolations do not reflect the sociological environment within China.

In a modern society, the touchstone of happiness of ethnic minorities is social inclusion, particularly in courtship and marriage, leading to assimilation. This is a social truism that most ethnic elders will refuse to accept.

If a progressive government has to yield to the zeal of the present generation of ethnic elders, then there could not have been coercive busing of children to dilute cultures and the Akaka Bill of 2000 that could have granted cultural autonomy to the Hawaiians should have been passed.

For every self-immolation, there are many ethnic celebrities in China. The Chinese public accepts them and they expressed their flair and talent in a way that the Chinese public accepts. They even flaunt their ethnicity within the confine of “diverse but united”, with ethnic dances, songs, and dresses.

I think there is a disconnect. White Americans into the ethnic causes in China are really clueless. In the home front, what many minority youths want, be he Black, Hispanic, Asian, or native, is the same chance as other white men to make love to your blonde daughters, or you, not their culture. What many black and Hispanic players in the Dallas Cowboys is the same chance with Jessica Simpson as Tony Romo, not their culture. Hispanic parents might have wanted to impress upon their children that the border crossed them, but the offspring wants the same chance as anybody else in courtship and marriage.

Eventually minorities don’t want to be the objects of spiritual or intellectual curiosity or drollery; they want to make love to you.

It is easy to preserve minority cultures by segregation and far more progressive to commit “cultural genocide” by inviting minorities into your bedroom. Some white folks are really clueless.

"The West is too dogmatic on the issue of freedom and human rights.
Freedom does not predict doing what is objectively the best; rights sometimes should yield to doing what is right, as considered by the progressive elite. "

Actually it does. Freedom, human rights, civil liberties, accountability of governments to those it serves are all fundamental to the long term health of a nation.

China has been decent at smoothing over the cracks forming but it is at best a band-aid on a gushing wound. Between its completely off the rails governance and the signs of an unchecked bubble economy, its a political/economic disaster waiting to happen. Dictatorships are good at delaying such things, but they seldom have the ability to recover once they happen.

Nations which enforce social divisions by force of law ensure discontent as a matter of course. Attempts to enforce cultural homogeny by force of law have the same effect. Its never a working long term solution.

Betalover, your take on American ethnic divisions is rather clueless and extreme. America does not have a culture per se. It steals from everyone else. There is no need for "cultural autonomy" in the US because there is an effort to keep our laws and their enforcement as culturally neutral as possible. Segregation in our nation was something forced upon people to deliberately classify a group as socially inferior. It is a far cry from cohesion among an ethnic group.

People in the US want to retain some measure of the culture they left behind but ultimately they do not reject our country to do it. Why? Because they are given the ability to buy into it. To take some measure of control for themselves. You can't say that is the case with any non-Han group in China (or minorities in most countries for that matter).

"Actually it does. Freedom, human rights, civil liberties, accountability of governments to those it serves are all fundamental to the long term health of a nation."

If freedom is paramount over all else there cannot be coercive busing of children in the USA. 85% of black parents elected to send their kids to segregated schools under the "freedom of choice" program in New kent country VA.

If democracy is paramount, then the Akaka Bill of 2000 should have been passed and we will have another "Indian Nation" for Hawaii.

Busing is anti-freedom, that of association. This is obvious.

For ethnic issues, it is very obvious that freedom does not lead to the objectively correct choice and doing what is right as considered by the progressive elite has to dominate popular sentiment of human rights.

For ethnic issues, there is direct opposite between objective truth and subjective sentiment of ethnic elders.

For ethnic issues, freedom and democracy is very bad for a country.

New Kent County VA, 1971, I believe.

"Betalover, your take on American ethnic divisions is rather clueless and extreme. America does not have a culture per se. It steals from everyone else. There is no need for "cultural autonomy" in the US because there is an effort to keep our laws and their enforcement as culturally neutral as possible. Segregation in our nation was something forced upon people to deliberately classify a group as socially inferior. It is a far cry from cohesion among an ethnic group."

No No No

First, there are still Native Americans in three major areas. Inuits in Alaska, people in all the Indian Nations, and Hawaiians. The first is not much discussed. The second is too beaten up to be articulate but still exist. The last group has some political power to bring issues under the spotlight for a while.

Second, blacks, after a few hundred years of slavery and segregation, have become a culture certainly by the 1960s.

Third, there is the white melting pot including the once discriminated Slavic people. In fact, I believe China's minorities will be more likened to Slavic whites in the USA, sociologically, in social inclusion including courtship and marriage.

Segregation in America has been based on race, not ethnicity. We has struggled far longer and more strenuously over race, as in physiognomy, than any ethnicity. Slavic whites, Italians, Irish and Catholics assimilated before any Civic Rights. Natalie Wood just changed her Russian name for the coveted American mainstream and stardom.

Culture is never stolen. Culture is a set of things you like and might feel ardent about. The USA has a great set of culture, acquired not possibly stolen.

"People in the US want to retain some measure of the culture they left behind but ultimately they do not reject our country to do it. Why? Because they are given the ability to buy into it. To take some measure of control for themselves. You can't say that is the case with any non-Han group in China (or minorities in most countries for that matter)."

Well, consider the Slavic whites in the USA. What matters more, their white face or their ability otherwise to "buy into it" or "have control". They had control because their white face allowed them to assimilate into the white melting pot.

Natalie Wood (actually in this case her parents but not necessarily grandparents) took the deliberate step to change her name. Some Slavic whites assimilated into the white melting pot less deliberately, by simple gradual influence or love between a man and a woman, for a long time, acceptable due to racial similarity.

"Well, consider the Slavic whites in the USA. What matters more, their white face or their ability otherwise to "buy into it" or "have control". They had control because their white face allowed them to assimilate into the white melting pot. "

Which is why we have never had a slavic president, but we have one "of color". =)
----
You really have a time-warped view of American culture and politics. Its kinda stuck somewhere between 1946 and 1975.

Its like if I was to comment about how Mao completely devastated your country to the point where any sign of a normal economy is fawned over because it represents such "fantastic growth". Maybe not.

As recently as ten years ago there was coercive busing in Atlanta.

30 years is not ancient history. I have fond memory about being a very good dancer. Disco hustle brought the races together to a point. I danced with black, white and Asian women, held them all close and dated all.

I have not heard anyone repudiating busing. Busing is not now or ever considered "cultural genocide". Please cite any article that repudiates busing. I‘d like to read it.

Not long before coercive busing there was rampant lynching of blacks. During busing we forced 85% of black parents to mix their kids with white kids, to sit next to white kids 40 hours a week and spend an extra 10 hours a week on a school bus. I can VERY LOGICALLY spin coercive busing as “cultural genocide”. I won’t, as I know the background.

I hope people do not talk of “cultural genocide” in China without knowing the sociological environment in China today.

Which is why we have never had a slavic president, but we have one "of color".

Yes, likely any Slavic will be just Slavic by an incidental name.

Precisely.

Why is Obama special?

It is NOT because he is of mixed ethnicity. I am sure many presidents before were of mixed ethnicity. He is special he is mixed RACE, black and white.

How Busch is Bush? How Clinton is Clinton?

See, Natalie Wood married Wagner. How Wagner is Wagner? Are we sure he is not actually Wakousky turned Wagner? Who knows without studying?

For the same reason that a Wood can be Russian in America, a Chen can be Tibetan in China. Where are all the Tibetans in China?

"Its like if I was to comment about how Mao completely devastated your country to the point where any sign of a normal economy is fawned over because it represents such "fantastic growth". Maybe not."

There is no need for "your country".

The fact is that even before opening up China's economy from the period 1950-1978 was of significant growth. The population nearly doubled.

The short period between c 1958 and 1961 was a major setback.

According to my college text the growth was 40% between 1965 and 1970.

"Can you say that about China? Do non-Han's have to deal with being segregated due to the laws of China?"

There are many minority areas in China because of Soviet influence of autonomy based on ethnicity.

The fact remains that there were in the USA areas of isolation for cultural preservation that the American racial minority elders find comfort in.

For the Hawaiians it was their island.

For for blacks they were their segregated areas such as schools and living quarters. Such are the domains that they once wished to remain in and vicariously for their offspring to remain in.

The rejection of the Akaka Bill forcefully takes the Hawaiians out of such protective domain; coercive busing likewise take black children out of this domain. The difference is physical size for the latter.

"You decry human rights but you don't really show an understanding as to how it works."

I do not decry human rights categorically. I point out logically that, for ethnic issues, human right and freedom have not been the focus for the USA; in fact, the USA did all to defeat freedom and rights of minorities for the purpose of assimilation. This is concrete American experience.

Rights and freedom are very bad in solving ethnic issues. The subjective feelings of elders and the objective truth of the virtues of assimilation are too different. There is no logical compromise, only rhetorical mollification. MLK’s “I want to be the white man’s brother not his brother in law” and China’s “autonomous regions” are examples.

"It would be nice if you knew enough to cite to an example from this generation as opposed to 30 years ago"

Yes I did,

The US Senate rejection of the Akaka Bill of 2000 that could have granted the Hawaiians cultural autonomy. We have too many Indian Nations already.

The august body cited the American "tradition of assimilation" as it rejected the Akaka Bill.

Listen, if we really had a tradition of assimiliation across the racial divide we would not even be talking about the issue. All Hawaiians today will be racially mixed, assimilation all done with.

I completely agree with the US Senate, not factually but ideologically. Assimilation is the only socially acceptable outcome and assimilation late is better than assimilation never. This is my focus, not the rhetoric that there is a tradition of assimiation in the USA across the racial divide.

China is the country that has the greater tradition of assimilation.

Also, no amount of "freedom" will really satisfy the ethnic minority eventually.

Social satisfaction does not come with just freedom; it comes with social inclusion into bedrooms of the majority and other minorities.

It is easy to preserve minority cultures by social exclusion, harder to commit "cultural genocide" by real social inclusion in courtship and marriage, into the bedrooms.

Most ethnic elders will not even want to consider this trusim, but trusim nonetheless.

This is why freedom and rights will not solve ethnic issues.

otherwise 85% of black parents could send their kids to all-black segregated school in New Kent county VA under the "freedom of choice" program.

There has to be substitute for liberty to freely associate with persons of your choice when the choice is not for assimilation.

If the USA is obsequious to the concept of liberty of association there would not have been coercive busing of kids.

Yes there has to be substitute for liberty. Paternalistic initiative is justified in solving ethnic issues.

"The civil rights movement (which was largely African American) were the ones pushing for the end of segregation. Perhaps you should go through a few books describing the conditions young African American students went through prior to desegregation before you make these assumptions."

This is a very simplistic view.

You should study history and become socially aware. If you are white, I suggest to you that many minority youths really want is the same chance with the white man to make love to your daughters (or you), not their culture. It is not that "separate is inherently unequal; it is that just equal is no fun.

But their elders had a completely different objective.

The history of how coercive busing started after New Kent county VA "freedom of choice" program is illustrative.

Black elders wanted jobs and economic equality, not integration. They wanted "separate but equal".

i find it strange that no one question the legitimacy of the Chinese claim over east Turkistan
the name Xinjiang is new and date from the Chinese empire occupation since 1880
the territory was since times immemorial a disputed territory between empires
and I see that even some non-Chinese are buying into that china-peace-loving propaganda
China is more imperialist than Russia and as Imperialist as USA if not more

Would China ever have a professional sports team called the "Tibetan Lamas", say the Lhasa Tibetan Lamas basketball team? Or may be the "Mongolian Hordes"? Never. The Chinese government will simply step in to say this is ethnic baiting. It does not need to justify such prohibition with legal terms.

During the Year of the Pigs the Chinese government warmed the Han majority to be very careful about not insulting the Muslim minorities about pigs and pork.

Yet, the USA has the "Washington Redskins" as the denigrating mascot; there is also the Atlanta Braves and Cleveland Indians with grotesque caricatures of the natives.

One the ground of freedom of expression, the US legitimatizes such hateful ex[pressions. The natives have no voice in this because they are outside the American society; they suffer from the trap of autonomy called the Indian Nations.

Try the “Cleveland Nig*ers” and you will see protests because blacks are within the American society. They no longer suffer from any autonomy trap called segregation.

Do not allow any true autonomy for any ethnic minorities in China. Be kind and include them in the Chinese society; promote assimilation , the only just social goal.

As we've seen in many other contexts, the dearth of reliable information is exacerbated by the contending parties' incentives to misrepresentwhat is really going on, making it extremely difficult for outsiders to judge either the threat of instability or the appropriateness of the government's counter-measures. And insofar as internal instability poses a significant to China's continued economic expansion, it means that outsiders will find it even more difficult to forecast its trajectory with confidence.

Force, Secret Police, Repression, and simply killing off anyone who says boo is infinitely more effective than democracy at keeping ANY population compliant. These kinds of quotes always get surpressed.

China has been decent at smoothing over the cracks forming but it is at best a band-aid on a gushing wound. Between its completely off the rails governance and the signs of an unchecked bubble economy, its a political/economic disaster waiting to happen. Dictatorships are good at delaying such things, but they seldom have the ability to recover once they happen. Nations green blog which enforce social divisions by force of law ensure discontent as a matter of course. Attempts to enforce cultural homogeny by force of law have the same effect. Its never a working long term solution.